RedsOctober.com

11/19/2012 12:34:47 PM #

Thanks for the new thread, Amy. We met SonOfDoc's new ladyfriend a couple of weeks ago and she came bearing gifts of Reds attire for each member of the family. We figured this was a VERY good sign.

I have purchased my 20-game package for 2013. I am anxiously waiting to purchase tix to Arizona for Spring Training. Baseball cannot come back soon enough.

DocProc | Reply

11/19/2012 12:47:36 PM #

I just checked and no new spring training info is up yet.

Where are the best places to stay? Does anyone have any particular time frame in mind?

I am thinking of a four-day-weekend sometime in mid-March.

Statmom | Reply

11/19/2012 9:28:20 PM #

I'm still waiting for the Reds schedule before I make definite plans. I've stayed at both the Hampton Inn and the Comfort Suites in Goodyear--both are very convenient to the ballpark. Definitely need a car, though.

Amy | Reply

11/20/2012 12:23:17 PM #

The Hampton might work because I could probably use Mr. Statmom's Hilton points.

I may be flying solo, though. No one has Spring Break at the right time . . . Mr. Statmom's turn to be Mr. Mom!

Statmom | Reply

11/21/2012 12:36:42 PM #

I am considering driving over to ST--maybe we can work something out

Mary | Reply

11/19/2012 12:53:55 PM #

All I want for Christmas is for John Fay to be wrong. If the Reds REALLY expect to have a payroll in the $80 million range, then our best case scenario for 2013 is to come back with the same team that was,

a.) Incredibly lucky (with a lack of injuries), and
b.) Not good enough to win the World Series.

It's hard to imagine the Reds having a better rotation in 2013 than 2012; it's hard to imagine having a better run (like they had in July). It's hard to imagine that, magically, NOW Stubbs/Cozart at the top of the order is good enough.

I simply refuse to believe John Fay knows what he's talking about, and for Xmas, all I want is confirmation of that.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/19/2012 12:55:36 PM #

Oh, and a new Reds hoodie would be nice. I've lost a bit of weight and the one I'm wearing right now is falling apart. So that would be cool too.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/19/2012 9:29:12 PM #

I saw a gray hoodie that I wanted sometime around the end of the season, but it was sold out before I ordered it. Maybe they've restocked...I should check.

Amy | Reply

11/19/2012 12:56:27 PM #

I also got this: shop.mlb.com/.../index.jsp

It may not be the pretties that in the world, but a fitted cap for $10 should never be turned down under any circumstance.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/19/2012 1:06:46 PM #

Speaking of hoodies, anyone pick one of these up? shop.mlb.com/.../index.jsp

I'm kinda picky when it comes to a hoodie - is it comfortable?

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/19/2012 1:23:01 PM #

Laughed until I cried at a few of these. I hope (know?) RO shares my sense of humor. http://theoatmeal.com/comics/thanksgiving

DocProc | Reply

11/19/2012 3:29:19 PM #

Love the Oatmeal

River Otter | Reply

11/19/2012 1:59:37 PM #

Ash, all I want for Christmas is for Fay to be right. Didn't he report that the money for Joey's extension came from revenue sharing that the team had been sitting on? And if that's the case then the 17m Votto is due for 2013 shouldn't be included in the projected payroll figures. So by my calculations, and Fay's previous reports, the Reds should have in excess of 17m to do a little shopping. But then again that depends upon Fay being accurate in the first place.

SilentBob | Reply

11/19/2012 2:02:14 PM #

Doc, she certainly sounds like she could be a keeper. Tell SoDoc to offer her a contract extension, quick!

SilentBob | Reply

11/19/2012 2:30:56 PM #

John Fay routinely calls my cell phone looking for insider info, of which I have none so I never call him back. I don't trust him to deliver much useful info. And if he did I'd likely have to pay for it.

RedFaced | Reply

11/19/2012 2:32:17 PM #

Have a super-swell Thanksgiving everyone!!

BJ - I'm feeling your pain football wise dude. I suspect next week shall be a true titanic struggle for both teams.

RedFaced | Reply

11/19/2012 3:09:33 PM #

This has nothing to do with baseball, but I laughed a whole lot.

www.buzzfeed.com/.../45-people-you-wont-believe-actually-exist-6z51

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/19/2012 10:33:56 PM #

Okay, two more teams have posted schedules today. Hurry UP, Reds.

Amy1 | Reply

11/20/2012 10:15:08 AM #

Yep. Annoying. What else do they have to do?

DocProc | Reply

11/20/2012 10:11:40 AM #

Not sure how Ludwick had a negative UZR for 2012. He certainly passed the eye test with me.

I hate defensive metrics. His UZR/150 was -7.6 per fangraphs.

RedFaced | Reply

11/20/2012 10:14:31 AM #

I agree, RF. I watched him closely all year and was impressed with the balls he got to and (generally) with his arm. He was at least satisfactory, and often pretty good. Certainly much better than Alonso or Gomes.

DocProc | Reply

11/20/2012 10:21:33 AM #

I looked it up and Gomes had a UZR/150 of -7.7 for the Reds in 2009. No way the two are equal in terms of defense.

RedFaced | Reply

11/20/2012 11:23:33 AM #

The low UZR may be just enough to keep Ryan in our price range. No body else needs to know how under rated he's been until he starts robbing them at GABP next year.

Dawginnaples | Reply

11/20/2012 12:50:45 PM #

I like that thinking Dawg!

RedFaced | Reply

11/20/2012 12:35:19 PM #

HAPPY TURKEY DAY EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!

Jabberwocky | Reply

11/20/2012 2:48:52 PM #

Headed out on the road. Y'all hold down the fort.

Amy | Reply

11/20/2012 2:56:26 PM #

Be careful Amy! Have a great Thanksgiving!!

RedFaced | Reply

11/20/2012 4:09:09 PM #

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone! My family is pretty much all out of town this year for the actual holiday but my parents have a huge party the Sunday before where we do a roasted, fried, and smoked turkey. We had about 60 people come out this year.

btalbert25 | Reply

11/20/2012 6:18:10 PM #

Hey everybody! Kind of a shitty day here. My younger brother who had a heart attack,back in June,had a massive attack to day and passed away. I will give thanks for the joy, fun and great times we had together on a ballfield.baseball trips and camping in the backyard for years. Hold your families close. B e thankful for all of your days and please keep his wife and daughter your thoughts and prayers. This is going to be very difficult for them.

Soccerdad13 | Reply

11/20/2012 7:25:40 PM #

Oh no! I will keep them all in my prayers. I wish there was more I could do.

Statmom | Reply

11/20/2012 7:29:07 PM #

I'm so sorry to hear your brother has passed away. No doubt a tough time not only his wife and daughters, but also for you. Will definitely keep them and you in my thoughts and prayers.

Mary | Reply

11/20/2012 9:09:38 PM #

So sorry to hear this, Soc. You'll be in our thoughts and prayers this during this holiday season.

DocProc | Reply

11/20/2012 11:01:26 PM #

So sorry to hear that....prayers for all your family

ohioredsfan1 | Reply

11/21/2012 1:39:41 AM #

My sympathies to you and your extended family SD.

Frank_Robinsons_Ghost | Reply

11/21/2012 10:03:44 AM #

Condolences to you and your family. I'll likewise keep your family in my thoughts and prayers.

River Otter | Reply

11/20/2012 9:24:23 PM #

Soccer,

Super sorry to hear about your brother. Being old, I know what it is like to start losing folks in your life you can't replace ( not that younger folks don't have the same issues ). I will certainly be in prayers for you, his family, all concerned. Makes for a lousy Thanksgiving. Again, truly sorry.

Keep me posted on things you might want me to specifically pray for, about, via e-mail. You can rest assured I will do it.

.genewv | Reply

11/21/2012 8:31:26 AM #

Soccer,

Sure am sorry to hear the news of your brother's passing. I have a little brother of my own, I can't imagine the sorrow you must be feeling. I will also say a prayer for your family.

RedFaced | Reply

11/21/2012 10:55:32 AM #

Thanks to all of you for your kind words. It really hurts right now. Baseball was a huge part of our lives together. I told him about this site and I think he was going to be a regular contributor next year. Gene would have had another pitcher to gang up on me. Thanks again.

Soccerdad13 | Reply

11/21/2012 3:49:04 PM #

WOW! it's just crazy the shit life throws at people. I have very little wisdom to throw out. I've lost a significant number of people in my life and the best thing is to surround yourself the all the people you care about and be there for the others your brother cared for the most. We didn't know your brother but if he was like you there are some people who lost a great husband/father/brother/friend. I feel for all of them.

Champ Summers | Reply

11/21/2012 11:03:06 AM #

Very sorry to hear of your loss Soccer. Will definitely have you and your family in my thoughts. Take care.

Hebron Reds Fan | Reply

11/21/2012 5:57:00 PM #

Soccer - late to the news but would also like to extend condolenses. Will also be including you and your family in my prayers. You,ve got my number if you need anything at all. I mean it.

Dawginnaples | Reply

11/21/2012 7:29:26 PM #

Jayson Stark ‏@jaysonst

Tidbit I heard today: Scott Rolen has told Reds he may play in 2013, but not ready to make a decision. Reds would like him back in some role

River Otter | Reply

11/21/2012 8:53:26 PM #

Reds signed former giants 1st rounder and light hitting middle infielder Emmanuel Burris to a minor league deal. He's been a bust. I hope he's not the guy set to replace Valdez. My guess he insurance at AAA especially if we have to deal a young SS.

Champ Summers | Reply

11/23/2012 11:04:22 AM #

Hello everyone. Commence with eating the left-overs.

RedFaced | Reply

11/23/2012 11:15:39 AM #

Wanna hear a sad story? I am roasting a 20 pound turkey today after gorging on turkey yesterday. Why? my friend thought 2 days was enough time to defrost a turkey in the frig, but found it too solid to get the guts out yesterday, so rushed out and bought a fresh turkey and needed someplace to dump the very slowly thawing one (me). Normally I would be more enthused about roasting a turkey, but I am still stuffed from yesterday's meal.

Mary | Reply

11/23/2012 7:52:27 PM #

Mary,

You can make all the stuff you taleneted folks can make out of turkey, freeze it, take it to Arizona with you on ST, and you RO folks can have a special Thanksgiving in the Desert in April.

Well,maybe not.

.genewv | Reply

11/23/2012 7:55:45 PM #

yeah, maybe not. Too much like the ham sandwich lady Amy ran into last year at ST

Mary | Reply

11/23/2012 8:15:47 PM #

Still waiting for the Reds to tell us what their Spring Training home schedule will be.

I also saw that Johnny Gomes signed a two year deal with the Red Sox.

Statmom | Reply

11/24/2012 6:11:01 AM #

I don't think I've seen a national columnist write a more uneducated bit about the Cincinnati Reds than I have right here, which is certainly something considering Jim Bowden is an employed writer at the Worldwide Leader.

espn.go.com/.../five-blockbuster-trade-suggestions

timmytwoshoezzz | Reply

11/25/2012 1:29:10 PM #

How many people really believe the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best college football teams are all in the SEC? Maybve it's time for the SEC "elite" to start playing some of the better teams from other major conferences more often to clear up this debate because it sure is starting to smell like collaboration in the ranking process. Just sayin' !

Dawginnaples | Reply

11/25/2012 6:38:29 PM #

I hate the hype about the SEC, and I really don't think Bama is the best team in that conference, but Florida has played and beat 4 teams in the top 12 and Bama utterly destroyed Michigan and like it or not, they are the 3rd best team in the Big 10 this year. Florida and South Carolina just beat 2 highly ranked teams from another conference. Last year LSU did beat on Oregon and West Virginia non conference too.

I agree, I don't buy into the hype, but Oregon got beat by the only really good team on their schedule, K-State lost to a horrible Baylor team. If my Buckeyes were allowed to be ranked in the BCS they'd be number 2 right now. That certainly hasn't helped matters.

btalbert25 | Reply

11/25/2012 9:14:11 PM #

I'm on the laptop for the first time since Tuesday--have not been good about checking in/reading anywhere, just tossing the occasional post up on Twitter from the phone. SoccerDad, I'm so sorry about your brother.

Amy | Reply

11/26/2012 11:51:38 AM #

Tyler Kepner ‏@TylerKepner

Blue Jays announce new staff, including hitting coach Chad Mottola, the last player picked (by the Reds) before Derek Jeter in 1992 draft.

Chad's son Luke is in my daughter's 1st grade class. Have to congratulate him after toiling in the minors for years.

Champ Summers | Reply

11/26/2012 12:40:49 PM #

The Reds re-signed right-hander Todd Redmond to a one-year, Major League contract worth $490K, MLB.com's Mark Sheldon reports.

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#TdLqawx1SAt51mVl.99

RedFaced | Reply

11/26/2012 12:45:04 PM #

I remember being rather unimpressed with Redmond.

DocProc | Reply

11/26/2012 12:51:21 PM #

Hard to say really, just one outing for the Reds and I don't believe any bullpen innings either. They sure could use him in AAA though.

RedFaced | Reply

11/26/2012 12:44:16 PM #

Doug Gray ‏@dougdirt24

So the Dodgers are about to get $240M per season for just their TV rights. Um, goodluck small market teams at ever signing another FA. #Reds

Champ Summers | Reply

11/26/2012 12:50:20 PM #

I really think TV revenue is about to explode for most teams including the Reds, I do however fear that the big markets will get far more than the small markets and the team revenue gap may indeed widen in say 5 yrs.

Signing guys now long term may be the best way to combat this short-term which is what I feel the Reds MUST do in order to compete in the next 5-10 yrs but after that I don't think we are going to like it much.

RedFaced | Reply

11/26/2012 2:45:38 PM #

The thing about TV money is, Sure big markets will explode, but 2 of the bigger market teams have already got a deal. The Yankees are about to get sell the YES network. Anyway, what's good for the Reds is, they'll get big market money in a small market. They won't get Dodger money but they'll be much much better off than most of the MLB.

btalbert25 | Reply

11/26/2012 2:49:59 PM #

I also don't think this TV money is sustainable. I mean the contracts are going to be in place, but eventually it's going to flame out. It's just growing at an unsustainable rate I think.

btalbert25 | Reply

11/26/2012 2:56:59 PM #

the next bubble

Champ Summers | Reply

11/26/2012 3:37:19 PM #

Doesn't exactly thrill me...

Reds In Serious Talks With Jonathan Broxton
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [November 26, 2012 at 2:30pm CST]

The Reds are in serious talks about a deal for free agent reliever Jonathan Broxton, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports (Twitter link). The sides are expected to reach a multiyear contract if they agree to a deal.

Broxton, a client of Jet Sports Management, ranked 45th on MLBTR's list of top 50 free agents. He spent the 2012 season pitching for the Royals and Reds. In 58 innings of relief he posted a 2.48 ERA with 7.0 K/9, 2.6 BB/9 and a 53.8% ground ball rate.
Read more at www.mlbtraderumors.com/.../...onathan-broxton.html

Champ Summers | Reply

11/26/2012 4:28:14 PM #

captain obvious strikes again

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS

If broxton deal gets done w/ #reds, thatll be their chance to move chapman to rotation

Champ Summers | Reply

11/26/2012 4:52:11 PM #

and let the shopping of Leake begin.

Amy | Reply

11/26/2012 5:05:10 PM #

Yep. While of course I'd like to ship him to the Twins as part of a package for Ben Revere, he's probably more valuable to a NL team because of his hitting, bunting, and base running.

DocProc | Reply

11/26/2012 5:55:11 PM #

I'm glad we're signing Broxton - he's a nice warm body who can do the job.

Here's a fun statistic:

2011 Reds closer - 37 saves, 6 blown saves, 2.45 ERA, 5.43 K/9
2012 Reds closer - 38 saves, 5 blown saves, 1.51 ERA, 15.32 K/9

So in 2012, the Reds closer had three times the strikeouts per nine innings and an ERA nearly a full run lower than in 2011... and saved precisely one more game in as many chances.

I know there are a lot of Cordero jokes being thrown around the old interwebs at this point, but look - Chapman was completely wasted as a closer, and as awesome as he was, it's not like it translated into that many more wins for the Reds (theoretically only one).

I promise Chapman is worth more than one win more than Leake next year, and for the life of the contract. And Broxton's ERA was nearly identical to Cordero's 2011 (2.48) and he struck out more than a batter more per inning as well (6.98). He'll give us roughly what Cordero did - which was roughly what Chapman did last year. Oh, and as we saw in Marshall last year, it can be tough to move from setup man to closer - Broxton has closed before. He'll be totally fine, while we may just have the best 1-4 rotation in baseball in Cueto/Latos/Bailey/Chapman.

This is a fantastic move for the Reds.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/26/2012 10:43:38 PM #

I stated once or twice before, I always thought the Reds would make a pitch for Broxton--pun intended.

If they don't overpay, I got no issue at all with him as the closer.

Many closers have a way of having a great season or two, fall off, then come knack again, etc.,--assuming their names are not Rivera, Hoffman.

.genewv | Reply

11/26/2012 10:44:23 PM #

Uh, that would be come BACK again!

.genewv | Reply

11/26/2012 11:29:12 PM #

Broxton is hardly exciting but fine. If Chapman is moved to the rotation my early prediction is JJ Hoover will end the season as the closer even if Broxton and Marshall are healthy. Dude showed some stones last season.

Problem with moving Leake is Chapmans innings. You could see a Strasberg like shut down even if he makes the transition successfully. Wonder how that 3rd pitch is coming along?

Champ Summers | Reply

11/26/2012 11:35:22 PM #

We are a bit lite in the LH dept out of the pen. I don't think Cingrani will be in the pen out of camp. I see Corcino, Lotzkar, and Cingrani being insurance for the rotation.

Champ Summers | Reply

11/26/2012 11:46:18 PM #

So Masset returns and Simon needs to become more useful and the pen will have nice depth.

The concer is how many arms are on the 40 with little experience. Lotzkar, contreras, Guillen, and Ravin have almost no innings above high A. Hopefully they won't be needed until September. You'd have to think a couple of those guys could be involved in a trade.

Champ Summers | Reply

11/27/2012 7:21:18 AM #

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS
Ryan Madson is close to a deal with the LA #angels. he is likely to be their closer.

timmytwoshoezzz | Reply

11/27/2012 7:30:06 AM #

If so, that's a guy I'll boo very hard if he ever pitches in GABP.

DocProc | Reply

11/27/2012 8:55:12 AM #

It wasn't like he got hurt on purpose. The injury cost him millions of dollars

timmytwoshoezzz | Reply

11/27/2012 9:00:33 AM #

Yeah, I know--but I think he owed the Reds the right of first refusal at a discount price.

I'd have trouble sleeping at night if I took 8 million from a team for doing nothing and then moved on to another team.

And yes, I realize I live in a different world from pro athletes.

DocProc | Reply

11/27/2012 9:08:21 AM #

But isn't the basic tenet of capitalism the profit motive, that he has the right to maximize his resources? He took a rish my not taking a long term deal and it bit him. Why should he incur further risk by taking less money not knowing how he will recover?

timmytwoshoezzz | Reply

11/27/2012 9:10:32 AM #

If you're wanting me to feel sorry/bad for the guy, it won't work.

DocProc | Reply

11/27/2012 9:12:54 AM #

Don't have to feel sorry for him, I certaintly don't, but you don't have to be angry either. He didn't wrong anyone.

timmytwoshoezzz | Reply

11/27/2012 9:20:04 AM #

By the letter of the law, no. But the Reds made a major investment in him and he didn't fulfill it. No fault of his own, but he could make it "right" by giving the Reds the right of first refusal at a discount price. The Reds would still be taking a risk on him, because who knows if he'll come back the same. Just give the Reds that option first. (I'm assuming from reports that he didn't)

I just think it lacks class to take the money and run.

DocProc | Reply

11/27/2012 10:23:53 AM #

I hear you Doc on the Madson front I think the worst part for me is that he declined his option and the Reds still pay him $2.5 MM to sign elsewhere. I partially blame the Reds for not insuring his contract- Team policy not to insure 1 yr contracts - I understand that policy but you have to think that a contract of $5MM or more perhaps you reconsider doing so. I wonder if the Reds will change their policy as a result?

It's the extra $2.5MM that leaves the bad taste in my mouth.

RedFaced | Reply

11/27/2012 1:05:00 PM #

The buyout was put in by the Reds as a way to spread the money out across three budget years. It was always Madson's intention to decline the option and collect the money, and the Reds knew it

timmytwoshoezzz | Reply

11/27/2012 10:40:33 AM #

Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving.

Soc, very sorry about your brother.

Initially, I thought the same thing on Madson, but we really don't know.  For all we know, the Reds had the first right of refusal and turned it down or offered him a much lower deal.  I don't blame him for taking the best deal.  Honestly, he probably wanted a guaranteed closer role more than anything and I doubt the Reds were going to offer him that.

At the end of the day, if the Reds are going to move Chapman, they need a closer from day 1 in the spring they know is healthy.  If Chapman starts the season as the closer, he'd finish it as the closer.  So to me, that eliminated Madson from the start.  The most interesting thing will be how they transition Chapman.  The last thing anyone wants to see is the guy perform well and then be shutdown in the middle of a playoff race like Strasburg.

bjsReds1 | Reply

11/27/2012 10:45:55 AM #

Ash, I believed all season Chapman was being wasted as a closer. Even when everyone was talking about him being Cy Young and MVP and all the other nonsense. Bottom line is, the difference between a great closer and an average closer just isn't that big. Difference between a good Starter and a great starter is HUGE. Only problem I see is the Reds have really dropped the ball with developing Chapman. When he signed they should have just committed from day 1 to make him a starter. He'd have the 3rd pitch locked down, He'd be in his 4th year of a contract and wouldn't have an innings cap and all that nonsense too. Essentially, he would be, today, what we expected when the guy was signed. Instead, it's taken them 3 wasted seasons to realize what the guy should be, A FREAKIN STARTER!!!!!!

btalbert25 | Reply

11/27/2012 10:58:52 AM #

Yep yep yep yep yep yep and yep.

RedFaced | Reply

11/27/2012 11:02:36 AM #

The good news on Chapman is this, he's signed through 2015 and is only arb eligible then so he won't be a free agent until 2017 so the Reds still have time to develop him as a starter and build up his innings. I like Talbert, wish this process had started a year or two earlier and I really wish he had been given the chance to develop that third pitch more but oh well.

Without Chapman in the back of the bullpen in 2012 I don't think the Reds have nearly as good a season as they did. So I understand the necessity of moving him back there when Madson went down. Hopefully Broxton/Hoover can do an above avg job in 2013. That is if that's the direction the team is wanting to go.

RedFaced | Reply

11/27/2012 11:04:31 AM #

I missed a comma in there, made it sound like I was stating "I like Talbert" which I guess I do, just didn't mean for it to be a public statement and all.

RedFaced | Reply

11/27/2012 11:06:28 AM #

I'll admit that I laughed when I first saw that.

DocProc | Reply

11/27/2012 12:14:26 PM #

lol that gave me a good laugh too! Even though I knew what you meant. You can ask Doc and Soccer, I'm not a bad guy!

btalbert25 | Reply

11/27/2012 1:31:16 PM #

Red, who ya'll hiring as coach?

bjsReds1 | Reply

11/27/2012 1:35:31 PM #

If the Reds wanted Madson back, they could have him - period.

He was only a Red because the Reds were the only team to offer him the best combination of money and situation for him. He wanted to close, and he wanted to get paid like an elite closer.

Now he'll be an Angel, because they gave him the best combination of money and situation. That's perfectly fair. If the Reds wanted him, they could have offered him the closing job or the money the Angels are offering him.

There's no reason to be hostile towards a guy who had bad luck. He signed a contract both sides agreed to last year, and it didn't work out. So the Reds didn't give him another one. Good for the Reds, good for Madson for finding another job.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/27/2012 1:38:48 PM #

BJ, I've been hearing rumors of Mark Stoops which seems like a decent move for the team I guess.

What about you guys?

RedFaced | Reply

11/27/2012 2:50:18 PM #

Anyone else think there is more "nightmare" than "dream" in this list of FA the Reds should go for?
bleacherreport.com/.../6

Mary | Reply

11/27/2012 2:59:48 PM #

Yeah... really, I'd love to have Nick Swisher. And that's it from that list.

But yes. Nick Swisher would be amazing.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/27/2012 5:09:04 PM #

Nick Swisher would be good to have in town, may help push the boundary between Reds and Cleveland fans north of Columbus too. Swisher was born in Columbus and is immensely popular up there since he went to Ohio State. I think he's pretty active in the Community and with the school too. Their baseball field has his name on it.

btalbert25 | Reply

11/27/2012 5:31:42 PM #

The dude is supposed to be on of the best clubhouse guys around, he's got a career OBP of .361, routinely hits 20-25 homers and posts 4 WAR seasons.

He may be way too expensive, but if he signs for, say, $12 mil a year and Ludwick signs with us for $8 mil, there will be something seriously skewed in the Reds' thinking.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/27/2012 4:12:42 PM #

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN

Ryan Madson and Angels reach an agreement, writes Jerry Crasnick. espn.go.com/.../ryan-madson-los-angeles-angels-agree-one-year-deal-source-says …

Champ Summers | Reply

11/27/2012 4:14:26 PM #

ryan smith ‏@punkpitch7

@DatDudeBP and Aso designing up his new glove. pic.twitter.com/T3JnLaW0

Champ Summers | Reply

11/27/2012 4:14:56 PM #

twitter.com/.../1

Champ Summers | Reply

11/27/2012 5:44:14 PM #

Swisher averages 143 Ks per 162 game season. Lifetime BA of .256. Has never had 100 RBI despite hitting in some pretty potent lineups.

I'm not all that excited.

DocProc | Reply

11/27/2012 5:56:18 PM #

Swisher is the typical 'Moneyball' guy. Getting on base is his forte, and that means taking a lot of pitches and drawing a lot of walks. I'll sacrifice a low average for that type of skill in our lineup (where no one but Votto works the count, ever).

As for RBI, keep in mind Swisher has almost always hit at the top of the order - he's led off a ton in his career, and has very often hit #2. In other words, he was basically our Cozart last year, and Cozart had 35 RBI. I hear someone's a pretty big fan of him.

Finally, power hitters strike out. That's a fact. His career strikeout rate of 21.3% is lower than Ludwick's (22.2%) and Bruce's (23.4%).

He's not Babe Ruth, but he's a helluva lot better than what we've had in our order the last couple years.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/27/2012 5:59:50 PM #

If he signs for $15-18 mil, he's obviously not worth it. But in this market, he's worth $12 mil, and comparing him to a guy like Ludwick is no real comparison.

At this point, though, does anyone trust Ludwick is coming back? If he's not, then we've got a real problem that has nothing to do with the leadoff spot.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/27/2012 6:32:27 PM #

I honestly think Ludwick is coming back.

DocProc | Reply

11/27/2012 10:09:08 PM #

Here's something to think about.  Last season Ludwick had a .346.  It was his best OBP season since 2008.  Since 2009, when Swisher joined the Yankees, his worst OBP season was 359. That is good enough to top every season in Ludwick's career but 1. Swisher is good for 55-60 extra base hits every season.

To me, 8 million to Ludwick is VERY VERY risky.  He has to duplicate last year's stats at the very worst, but at 8 mil he better have a better season than last year.  I'm not convinced Ludwick is capable of that.

Say the Reds land Denard Span in the offseason, then they went and got Swisher.  You'd have to 350-370 OBP guys hitting in front of Votto.  Votto would have 150 RBIS.

btalbert25 | Reply

11/27/2012 10:14:17 PM #

Another think with Ludwick is, he's only had 1 year where he's had over 100 RBI's. I LOVE Ludwick, but Swisher is used to getting on base infront of studs in the lineup, He's a terrific clubhouse guy. Another thing scary about Ludwick is, he's only played more than 130's games in a season 1 time. Swisher is good for a 150 per year.

btalbert25 | Reply

11/27/2012 6:55:18 PM #

Here's a name to remember - Jair Jurjjens.

Obviously 2012 was a disaster of epic proportions. But he's just a year removed from 152 innings of 2.96 ERA ball, and he'll be 27 next year. I think that Price could fix him up and he could easily become a guy that can give us depth in the rotation and at Louisville.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/27/2012 7:20:20 PM #

Okay, I'm with you on this one.

DocProc | Reply

11/27/2012 8:52:38 PM #

JJ is total crap, was getting rocked last season at Gwinnett for their AAA club. He's a step backward from any of the 5 spots in the Reds rotation

timmytwoshoezzz | Reply

11/27/2012 10:10:17 PM #

I'd take him for AAA depth. Has to be better than what we had down there to make a spot start last year.

btalbert25 | Reply

11/28/2012 5:32:36 AM #

well, they say there are no bad minor league contracts. But if he requires a major league deal, no thanks

timmytwoshoezzz | Reply

11/27/2012 10:46:52 PM #

I think Champ is at this show:

antsmarching.org @antsmarching
I know this is a DMB site, but Bronson Arrroyo just guested on Black on an Eddie Vedder showing. Orlando & it was awesome
Retweeted by Redleg Nation

Amy | Reply

11/27/2012 11:57:14 PM #

Ryan Madsen could have given up a little cash to correct the deficit the Reds got stuck with. Not his fault but he's also not entirely free of culpability, either. A man of integrity would... oh never mind. I forgot this is professional sports. God bless him, anyway.
  Nick Swisher would be interesting at least and potentially prospects changing for the team.
  Jurgens might be worth a flyer. When your numbers drop like his did you usually suspect a health issue. If so, he could be healthy by spring and become a very nice insurance policy. Probably cheap right now.

Dawginpittsburgh

Dawginnaples | Reply

11/28/2012 9:55:07 AM #

The Reds and Jonathan Broxton have reached agreement on a three-year deal, the team confirmed. The contract is worth $21MM, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#FW3qcfhI0vo5qmdf.99

RedFaced | Reply

11/28/2012 9:56:19 AM #

The deal will pay Broxton $4MM in 2013, $7MM in 2014 and $9MM in 2015. It also includes a $9MM club option for 2016 with a $1MM buyout.

RedFaced | Reply

11/28/2012 9:59:05 AM #

OK gang, tell me what you think about the Broxton deal.

Too long? Too much money? Just right? Chapman to the rotation a definite?

Who's the left-hander in the pen now?

RedFaced | Reply

11/28/2012 10:03:18 AM #

one year too long. Heck, Massett could be as effective.

Marshall is still the LH'er out of the pen.

Champ Summers | Reply

11/28/2012 10:03:33 AM #

not that we dont need another lefty

Champ Summers | Reply

11/28/2012 10:04:22 AM #

This was interesting info about Broxton from Better Off Red:

With the Reds he recorded all 4 saves over 4 consecutive apps from 9/11-9/19, while Aroldis Chapman rested a fatigued shoulder. Broxton allowed only 2 homers all season, on 5/16 to Baltimore's Wilson Betemit and on 9/29 at Pittsburgh to Andrew McCutchen. Between home runs he threw 42 homerless innings over 42 apps. He also allowed only one walk in his last 18 appearances.

I personally like that the Reds have resolved the closer issue early and have Chapman heading for the rotation. And regarding lefty in the bullpen, we have a guy named Marshall. This works for me.

DocProc | Reply

11/28/2012 10:16:00 AM #

The only thing is, Marshall should not be used like Bray, as a situational lefty and if he's the only lefty in the Pen, that's EXACTLY what Dusty will do. He did it some last year. Marshall is probably the best pitcher in this team's bullpen and they'll be screwing around bringing him in to face one batter here and there. They better get someone else because using Marshall in that role is a total waste of great bullpen pitcher.

btalbert25 | Reply

11/28/2012 10:22:19 AM #

Dusty will use him as a situational lefty. He proved that all season. I'd like to see Arredondo or Ondrusek swapped out for an effective lefty.

Hopefully the beast can be harnessed in Simon or he will be shown the door too.

LeCure has to feel pretty solid after he nutted up time after time late in the year.

Champ Summers | Reply

11/28/2012 10:27:53 AM #

I'm over Arredondo. I think the Reds are over Ondrusek. I agree that an additional lefty would be a good idea.

DocProc | Reply

11/28/2012 10:19:26 AM #

So Amy was right...I WAS AT THAT SHOW! First of all, really close to the best show I've ever seen. Glen Hansard was amazing and the Falling Slowly duet was the highlight except for what Amy said.

I had a feeling Bronson would be there. He was in Columbus in 2010 at the the PJ show and he gave Vedder a Reds Jersey.

This time Eddie calls Bronson up on stage and tells him to get ready. After a couple songs Eddie sits down and says I'm going to play a song with Bronson, one that I heard he played the other night. He said he's only played the song once before without the band and it was for a charity for $5000. Bronson then started into "Black". As much as Arroyo loves PJ it had to be the thrill of his life.

He sat on stage with his idol playing a song that only a handful of other people have played with Vedder. Bronson did a great job.

We were 13 rows back in a 4000 seat venue. We sat directly behind Vedder's in-laws, wife and daughter and extended family. Not necessarily a good thing but interesting. They couldn't stay seated. They are hitting the theme parks today.

Champ Summers | Reply

11/28/2012 10:26:18 AM #

Very, very cool. BTW, I've seen Glen Hansard in concert (part of The Swell Season) and he's great. He did Falling Slowly with Marketa and it was powerful.

DocProc | Reply

11/28/2012 10:53:12 AM #

Sorry I didn't really clarify. Who is the other lefty in the pen outside of Marshall? I do feel we need another lefty. Last year we had Marshall, Chapman and Bray, to go down to just Marshall seems dangerous to me, especially the way Dusty uses his pen.

Really I expect the Reds to likely sign someone for this role.

RedFaced | Reply

11/28/2012 12:47:24 PM #

Zach Stewart just got traded to the Pirates, and he's now in his fifth organization.

I keep bringing this up to remind everyone of why a team should, 9 times out of 10, trade minor leaguers for major leaguers. You just never know how or when or if a guy will develop. Sometimes you can be wrong, but more often than not, make the trade.

(in other words, if I'm Walt, I'm offering Hamilton, Cingrani and Corcino for Giancarlo Stanton right now).

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/28/2012 1:09:01 PM #

I'd do that in a heartbeat dude. But I don't think the Marlins would.

RedFaced | Reply

11/28/2012 1:29:20 PM #

I think they're done unloading:

www.cbssports.com/.../like-it-or-not-marlins-giancarlo-stanton-isnt-going-to-be-traded

DocProc | Reply

11/28/2012 1:42:34 PM #

He doesn't make enough for the Marlins to move him just yet.

RedFaced | Reply

11/28/2012 2:29:00 PM #

I refuse to believe that Jeffrey Loria and David Samson are telling the truth about anything. So yeah - I'm sure they've said Stanton isn't going anywhere, and I'm equally sure that he'll be traded if they get enough back for him.

I'll say this, though - if I'm the Reds, now that you've signed Broxton and now that the extra TV money exists, I'm all in on Free Agency. The money will be there (I've read anywhere from $25-30 mil per team starting next year); go get the bats you need.

Sign Pagan, sign Swisher, pay for them with TV money, and don't trade anyone. And then go win 100 games next year.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/28/2012 2:46:33 PM #

Madson's deal is for only $3.5 mil guaranteed, and only up to $6 mil if he's totally healthy and finishes a certain amount of games.

There's no reason to be mad at him - obviously, the Reds simply didn't want the guy back if that's all he got from Anaheim.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/28/2012 2:53:30 PM #

doesn't he live in southern CA? I seem to remember when someone asked Fay if he was with the team, he said something about him being home in CA rehabbing there. That could be a reason for a discount to go to Anaheim

Mary | Reply

11/28/2012 4:19:40 PM #

Okay, I'll be less mad.

I'd like to hear (though I probably won't) that the Reds passed on Madson rather than vice-versa.

DocProc | Reply

11/28/2012 4:32:03 PM #

I more feel bad for the guy than anything else. How much would it have sucked to be him last year, watching from the sidelines as the team you signed with won 97 games and a Division Title? And not only that, but you know that your injury caused a panic/reshuffling/renovation of the pitching staff?

As for the money itself, so long as the union exists, he could never do something like turn down the $2.5 mil or anything. That's simply not feasible in this labor climate, where there's already so much distrust on both sides.

I just think it's best he move on. The Reds can't trust him - too much is at stake in 2013 to go forward with a recovering arm as your bullpen anchor. And it's not like he was really 'part' of the team anymore than you or I were.

It's nobody's fault. It's just a crappy situation, I think.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/28/2012 3:56:09 PM #

Ash, you would be proud, I'm having a discussion on FB with a guy talking about how great the bullpen will be with Chapman and Broxton.  I told him it's not going to be both, Broxton will close.  He thinks I'm out of my mind.  When I gave him the stats you posted comparing 2011 Coco to 2012 Chapman he said their stats aren't even close. So I looked up their WAR.  In 2011 Coco's WAR was 1.6.  In 2012, Chapman's WAR was 2.2.

So in one of the most dominant seasons every by a closer Chapman was good for +2.2 and in a season where everyone complained about Coco because every year Coco pitched people complained, he was at 1.6.

Anyway, my argument is, if you have quality arms in the bullpen the closer role is really over rated and even being a decent starter is more valuable.  His counter argument is teams wouldn't be paying closers 10 million a year if they weren't valuable.  With that reasoning, I had to walk away.  Fact is, Broxton will give probably 90% of the production in terms of save rate as Chapman.

My guess is Chapman in the rotation is good enough, at the very least to offer more value to the team than Mike Leake.  Even if he is a work in progress much of the year.

btalbert25 | Reply

11/28/2012 4:03:38 PM #

Yep. And yep.

And I'm glad you brought up WAR. Last year, Mike Leake's was worth 1.5 WAR.

Kris Medlen was worth 3.9 in just 138 innings.
Chris Sale was worth 4.9 in 192, one year after pitching just 71 (exactly what Chapman did in 2012)
Wade Miley was worth 4.8 in 194 as a rookie.

As far as the Reds go, Latos was worth 3.1, Bailey 2.8, and Cueto worth 4.8.

Chapman doesn't have to hit his ceiling next year to make the Reds better; Broxton doesn't have to be Chapman next year to make the Reds better. If they just have normal, non-extraordinary seasons, this is a 2-3 WAR win for the Reds. If Chapman hits his ceiling, this can be a 5 WAR win for the Reds.

And that's without any other moves at all.

This really is a good investment by the Reds.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/28/2012 4:19:06 PM #

I know not everyone is crazy about WAR, and I'm still not sold on it being a be-all end-all stat, I do think it has value. I've just never been one who believes it truly takes a certain kind of person to close, or that you MUST have a good closer.

The point I brought up to the dude was that the Giants lost one of the best closers in the game, and the rest of the bullpen stepped up and took that spot over, and guess what, they won the World Series. If you take Cain, Bumgardner, or Vogelsong out of the rotation, do they even make it to the playoffs?

btalbert25 | Reply

11/28/2012 4:27:02 PM #

I think that there's a false dichotomy here.

Yes, starters are always more valuable than closers.
No, not every reliever has the balls/mental fortitude/attitude to close.

Because I believe the above two statements, I love this move. It gets Chapman into the rotation (where an arm like his belongs) and gives us a guy we know won't freak out in the ninth inning.

After what I've seen of Masset, Marshall, and Ondrusek, I don't think those guys have 'it' (whatever 'it' is). Maybe Hoover does; maybe LeCure (though I'm not sure either one of them has enough pure stuff).

This way is the best of both worlds - frontline ace arm in the rotation, proven closer in the pen, all at an affordable price.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/28/2012 4:28:27 PM #

Yep, yep, yep.

DocProc | Reply

11/28/2012 4:09:04 PM #

Also this - Fay is saying the Reds' payroll is $75 mil right now, and there's not enough money to re-sign Ludwick.

I'd really like to know where he's getting his information. I haven't heard Jocketty or anyone else say the Reds don't have money - I've heard the opposite. And even when he cited an unnamed 'team source' a few weeks back, the guy was saying it would be pushing $90 mil, even if it's in the $80 mil range (it'd be closer to 90 than 80).

Does he just say the Reds will do nothing so he doesn't have to answer any questions about what they may do? He's not even consistent with what he's saying.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/28/2012 4:16:38 PM #

I've learned to just ignore what Fay says all together. Time and again he's wrong.

btalbert25 | Reply

11/28/2012 4:54:17 PM #

Fay is horrible with math, especially when $ is involved.

RedFaced | Reply

11/28/2012 5:02:03 PM #

Ironcially, didn't Marty use to call him "the bank president"?

I'm confident that Walt is going to try to get a lead off hitter for next year.

River Otter | Reply

11/28/2012 5:22:36 PM #

I am confident in that too, Otter. Walt rarely tips his hand, but he's made it perfectly clear that he's looking for a new leadoff hitter (and probably CF). What he wants, he gets.

Leake, Corcino, and (toss in) Stubbs for Ben Revere?

DocProc | Reply

11/28/2012 5:59:44 PM #

I wonder if Walt is looking for a one-year rental. I'd be hesitant to give up that much for Revere, but I always over value our starting pitching prospects.

River Otter | Reply

11/28/2012 6:34:48 PM #

He did call him the "bank president" but I think Marty was implying that John worked "bank president" hours. Marty would know!

Statmom | Reply

11/28/2012 4:57:32 PM #

I'm with you Ash, really go all in this off-season. The TV money will cover it, as will the increased ticket sales the next 3 yrs.

And if all else fails you the Marlins have proven you can dump any contract.

RedFaced | Reply

11/28/2012 5:01:15 PM #

I also read somewhere that the Reds made $5 mil from the playoffs; the Cards made $17 mil from the playoffs.

Point is, losing in the NLDS just paid for Broxton.

I'd be willing to gamble that if you sign a guy like Pagan or Swisher, that you'll pay for him by advancing in October.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/28/2012 5:26:49 PM #

If Swisher were a reality for the Reds at 12 million, I'd tell Ludwick thanks for the great season and good times, but you need to go find your 8 million somewhere else.

If they have a shot to go get Pagan and Swisher, they must do it. Pagan, Swisher, Votto, BP, Bruce that's a top 5 that would put up SIGNIFICANT RUNS.

btalbert25 | Reply

11/28/2012 5:35:17 PM #

BTW, I could get really excited about Pagan batting leadoff. He's a switch hitter who swiped 29 bases and had a league-leading 15 triples last year--and he has never struck out 100 times in a season.

I'd have to get over his ironic name. I could do that easily.

DocProc | Reply

11/28/2012 5:45:23 PM #

Presumably his parents have a good sense of humor.

River Otter | Reply

11/28/2012 5:50:55 PM #

I've never even realized his name is ironic. Until this moment, I never even thought about. I like him even more now!

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/28/2012 6:10:53 PM #

I always say something dorky about how confused he must be whenever I see him in a game on tv. Because I can't help myself.

Amy | Reply

11/28/2012 6:20:02 PM #

I feel so lame for having never picked up on it before this point.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/28/2012 6:28:57 PM #

It's easy to forget/miss since his last name is pronounced Pa-gawn.

Amy and Doc are just more clever than we are!

River Otter | Reply

11/28/2012 5:51:29 PM #

B.J. Upton (and his .298 OBP) to Atlanta for $75 mil over 5 years. Yikes.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/28/2012 6:01:28 PM #

Wow. This deal isn't going to help the Reds re-sign Ludwick at a reasonable price.

River Otter | Reply

11/28/2012 6:07:43 PM #

My thoughts exactly.

Upton is basically a better version of Stubbs. If Upton's a $75 mil guy, Stubbs is a $40-50 mil guy on the open market, right? I can't imagine paying that for a guy like Stubbs, and this deal may very well affect his arbitration price.

I'd do my darndest to do what Doc keeps wanting - go get a guy like Revere and just non-tender Stubbs.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/28/2012 6:26:16 PM #

I can't even wrap my mind around the possibility of Stubbs getting that much on the open market

River Otter | Reply

11/28/2012 6:28:16 PM #

Believe it - Upton had a sub-.300 OBP. His entire case as a good player is built on defense, speed, and power. He's just a little better than Stubbs at all those things.

It's telling that an organization that's renowned for knowing what they're doing let him go. If the Reds know what they're doing, they'll do the same with Stubbs.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/28/2012 6:36:32 PM #

Agreed. Hopefully Hamilton is the real deal and will be playing CF in 2014.

River Otter | Reply

11/28/2012 5:57:25 PM #

Video of the Arroyo/Vedder performance:

http://t.co/sUZ8lRHX

Amy | Reply

11/28/2012 9:07:57 PM #

Ooops, not any more

This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Pearl Jam Ten Club.

RedFaced | Reply

11/28/2012 11:54:46 PM #

Damn it to hell. There is no way he's letting black with Arroyo float around the Internet.

Champ Summers | Reply

11/28/2012 9:10:35 PM #

Upton is basically Stubbs in his best year, plus he has a clue on the basepaths. So basically if Stubbs kept producing at his rookie rate but he's fallen off every year since.

I also believe Walt will get that leadoff hitter this off-season. Not sure it will be anyone we have mentioned because Walt always seems to pull these things out of his ear-hole (sorry, I love throwing around that ticket-oak line when I can).

RedFaced | Reply

11/29/2012 8:38:26 AM #

Are the winter meetings next week? Perhaps Walt gets that lead-off hitter while there.

RedFaced | Reply

11/29/2012 8:56:14 AM #

Yes:

In 2012, the 111th annual Baseball Winter Meetings are scheduled to be held in Nashville, Tennessee from December 3-6.

DocProc | Reply

11/29/2012 10:08:38 AM #

I guess we should send BJ or Grizz to Nashville to cover the meetings for RO. Is Grizz still in that area?

RedFaced | Reply

11/29/2012 10:14:08 AM #

For once I actually agree with Bernie Miklasz: www.stltoday.com/.../...70c-8716-1e8c9aea2017.html

River Otter | Reply

11/29/2012 11:19:56 AM #

very surprising, but I also agree with him for a change

Mary | Reply

11/29/2012 12:00:07 PM #

I never realized someone as baseball informed as Bob Costas doesn't have an HOF vote. That is absurd. He is someone who would absolutely respect the ballot and the responsibility given to him.

btalbert25 | Reply

11/29/2012 1:40:22 PM #

Kind of crazy, he may actually make for a good commissioner of baseball.

RedFaced | Reply

11/29/2012 2:28:08 PM #

I've always thought that myself. It'd be nice to have someone in there who loves and respects the game and has enough intelligence to be able to understand the business aspects of it as well.

btalbert25 | Reply

11/29/2012 1:39:29 PM #

Here's the end of the story relating to the Chapman Hotel room incident.

hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/.../

RedFaced | Reply

11/29/2012 3:55:34 PM #

Wow, she's pretty fortunate she didn't get hit were more serious charges. Apparently there wasn't enough evidence to prove they were trying to scam Chapman.

River Otter | Reply

11/29/2012 3:34:53 PM #

I stayed in Opryland Hotel last week over Thanksgiving.  I had actually thought about the Winter Meetings while I was there.  I have stayed there one time while the meetings were going on.  It's quite a circus - basically a bunch of writers hanging out everywhere.  Of course it's not really different than any other day in that place.

I don't know if I've ever mentioned this on here, but the year I was staying there (it was to see the Rockettes by the way), I stood in line for about 5 minutes waiting to check in with Dusty Baker and Mike Scoscia checking out.  It was interesting that it was those two together because they'd just faced each other in the World Series.  I remember saying something to Dusty actually, but nothing more than tough luck in the World Series or good luck with the Cubs or something of that nature.

The Opryland is huge, but it doesn't take too long to get acclimated with the place.  My guess is those guys don't really leave the place too much.  It's the type of place one can easily hang out (using Xmas as an excuse) and see some big time baseball people.  The hotel is about 5 minutes from my parents house.  Unfortunately I won't be there this year.  Last week over Thanksgiving they had some clogger convention going on - very strange since it was Thanksgiving.  They were all from Alabama it seemed.  I thought TN fans were crazy, but seeing entire families with no wardrobe that wasn't houndstooth or crimson is very strange.

bjsReds1 | Reply

11/29/2012 5:25:44 PM #

A piece of news on one potential lead-off hitter and CF not going to the Reds -- Span to the Nationals for a good Class A pitching prospect.

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.../index.html

This suggests to me that the Nats don't think they will re-sign Adam Laroche.

Frank_Robinsons_Ghost | Reply

11/29/2012 5:30:15 PM #

Oh. my. goodness. Ash is going to throw a fit. A Class A pitching prospect for Denard Span??? Seriously??? Geez, the Reds could/should have topped that offer.

And that means the Twins won't be trading my favorite CF prospect, Ben Revere. This blows.

DocProc | Reply

11/29/2012 6:41:26 PM #

Walt Jocketty is dead to me.

ashlandateam2 | Reply

11/29/2012 7:34:53 PM #

I hear you.

DocProc | Reply

11/29/2012 8:23:59 PM #

So, clearly, if they'd wanted Span, they could've had him. The question is, who DO they want? Might get interesting at the winter meetings.

Amy | Reply

11/29/2012 9:11:50 PM #

Amy, you took the words right out of my mouth (or fingers maybe).

Sounds like Walt could have had Span twice now and clearly could have offered more and gotten him this off-season.

Don't underestimate Uncle Walt, I fully expect him to pull another deal out of his hat.

RedFaced | Reply

11/29/2012 9:15:08 PM #

If Walt gets Dexter Fowler, I'll be happy. Or Michael Bourn. Or someone else who's good.

So help me, though, if Drew Stubbs is our center fielder next year, I'm gonns be a Nats fan. Harper and Span are too much to resist.

ashlandateam2 | Reply

11/29/2012 9:15:23 PM #

More on the guy they traded for Span:

Meyer was a first-round pick out of the University of Kentucky in 2011 and posted an impressive line for his first season of pro ball this past season: a 2.86 ERA with 9.7 K/9 and 3.1 K/BB ratios over 129 innings split between Class A and High A ball. The 6-foot-9 righthander throws in the upper 90s with a great slider and projects as a top of the rotation starter.With Ben Revere ready to patrol centerfield, it made sense for Minnesota to part with Span as part of its rebuilding.

DocProc | Reply

11/29/2012 9:48:19 PM #

Joel Luckhaupt ‏@jluckhaupt

Can't say I'm disappointed about not getting Span. Not sure his game is well-suited for GABP.

@jch24 GABP's not good for slap hitters. Doesn't hurt speed, but gaps aren't big enough for someone that depends on gap hits.

I'm sure you guys feel better now about not getting Span.

River Otter | Reply

11/29/2012 9:51:06 PM #

I miss the days when the Leather Pants was running the Nats, although maybe Rizzo can figure out another way to bench Strasburg for the playoffs next year.

River Otter | Reply

11/29/2012 10:33:46 PM #

I have admit that I'm disappointed that the Reds did not get Span, that's who I was lobbying for since the July trade deadline. I just have faith Walt has a better idea of what's going on than I do.

RedFaced | Reply

11/30/2012 8:13:20 AM #

Boy o Boy did the Mets overpay for Wright. I don't see how he'll ever play to that contract in 3-4 yrs. I like the guy and all but glad it's them and not us.

RedFaced | Reply

11/30/2012 8:25:01 AM #

eight-year $138MM - he's 30 now.

RedFaced | Reply

11/30/2012 9:11:27 AM #

I see you guys and gals have been wheeling and dealing since i last posted.

We are in the process of remodeling 2 houses--ours and my sister in laws, and, have had a death in the family ( not unexpected ) in the last couple weeks.

I am happy with the Broxton deal. I think, barring injury, he will be worth the money, especially if it gets Chapman on the road where he belongs, to Starterville.

I do hope we can hold onto Leake, as I see him as a BA type for years to come--innings eater, .500 plus winning percentage, etc., a bullpen saver. That said, I do understand WJ might need to let him go to get a CF, lead-off hitter of choice. Hope not.

My early season comeback player of the year for the Reds--Logan Ondrusek. You heard it here first. Relievers, especially younger ones, have a tendency to be up and down early on in their careers. He has lost no stuff, just a little confidence and command--one affecting the other.

Later, time to get to work.

.genewv | Reply

11/30/2012 10:18:53 AM #

One more thing to consider (yes, I know you will yell and scream at this, but it's a possibility):

Maybe Walt took a pass on Span because he has Billy Hamilton slotted for CF/leadoff?

DocProc | Reply

11/30/2012 11:02:03 AM #

I think you're right. Walt's probably looking for a one-year fix and didn't want to trade a top pitching prospect. Who knows, maybe he also had the same opinion as Joel Luckhaupt that Span's offensive game could suffer in GABP.

River Otter | Reply

11/30/2012 11:21:08 AM #

Hey Gene. I was down running around in your kneck of the woods (I think) the last few days. I worked near Cheat Lake, Morgantown, White Hall, Nutter Fort, Fairmont, as well as Oakland and Cumberland Md. I think that is north of your location but truly one of the prettiest places I've been. Deep Creek Lake made me want to stay for a few days and fish. I think I wore out the transmission on the rental car going up and down all those hills.

Dawginnaples | Reply

11/30/2012 4:40:15 PM #

Dawg, you sure do get around dude.

RedFaced | Reply

11/30/2012 2:49:08 PM #

Letting Span go so easily tells me Walt has something bigger in mind. Maybe he's already in talks with Pagan, possibly Bourne. I won't be outraged just yet. I remember last year when everyone was throwing a fit because they didn't go out and get Gio or Cahill, look what he did.

There will be a leadoff hitter here, and I don't think they are hedging their bets that Hamilton is the future. Many a team have been sorely disappointed believing a hot prospect is going to pan out, only to watch them fail.

btalbert25 | Reply

11/30/2012 3:22:13 PM #

Fun facts:

Gio Gonzalez - 21-8, 2.89 ERA, 5.4 WAR in 199.1 innings in 2012; signed long-term for 5 years, $42 mil through 2016, team options in 2017-2018.

Trevor Cahill - 13-12, 3.85 ERA, 3.4 WAR in 200 innings in 2012; signed long term for 4 years, $30 mil through 2015, team options in 2016-2017.

Mat Latos - 14-4, 3.48 ERA, 3.1 WAR in 209 innings in 2012; under team control via arbitration through 2015.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/30/2012 3:26:08 PM #

Three things of note here:

1.) According to WAR (for whatever that's worth), Gonzalez and Cahill were both more valuable than Latos in 2012. According to other, traditional stats, Gonzalez was definitely more valuable, and Cahill was at least as valuable.

2.) The Reds gave up more in their trade for Mat Latos than the Nats or Diamondbacks did in their respective trades, and in the case of Cahill, it's not even remotely close.

3.) Cahill is signed for half the money Mark Sheldon suggested Latos would be signing for, and Gonzalez is signed for $18 million less. Additionally, both players have team friendly options tacked on the end.

Look, I love Mat Latos. Irrationally, even - he may be my favorite Red pitcher ever (Brett Tomko is somewhere weeping, anxiously awaiting comforting from his Playmate of a wife). But saying 'Walt passed up Gio and Cahill and he got Latos!' isn't necessarily saying a good thing.

AshlandATeam | Reply

11/30/2012 3:41:07 PM #

Ok, so I'm going to try to be rational here.

Span and Upton are off the table.
Bourn is asking $100 mil.
Pagan is (supposedly) asking for something in Upton's neighborhood.
Victorino is old, potentially washed up, and asking for $10 mil a year.
Crisp apparently doesn't exist in the world that Walt lives in.
Dexter Fowler isn't going to be traded.
Gerado Parra could be had for a shortstop that Walt says he won't trade.

Where does that legitimately leave us? With Drew Stubbs, and the vastly superior Chris Heisey languishing on the bench.

I'm gonna go buy a Nats hat and have my artist work on a Teddy Roosevelt tattoo.

AshlandATeam | Reply

12/1/2012 9:42:08 AM #

Possibly the most rational and thoughtful look at the current leadoff prospects that I've seen. You nailed it dude. Let's just hope Walt is working his famous magic as we speak. His track record has been good to great, you know.

Dawginnaples | Reply

11/30/2012 4:37:03 PM #

There's a new thread. Just because.

Amy | Reply

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