04-15-2014 GAME THREAD: Reds Try To Take Two On Tax Day

by Mary 15. April 2014 13:54

Game Time(s):   completion of game 13--5:50 PM ET

                          regularly scheduled game: 30 40 minutes after conclusion of game 13

 

Location: GABP 

Lineups:  ??????

 Pitcher:Gerrit Cole - R

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We know who can't pitch or pinch hit again in the continuation of last night's game, but we have no idea who will come out for the seventh and on to pitch.  We can just hope it isn't Curtis Partch.  Neftali Soto is the only bench bat who is unavailable due to pinch hitting for Bailey and scoring the then tying run ahead of Votto's Nibbler.

 

Weather:

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Past 24-hr Precip:
0.31 in (est.)
Chance of Rain
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Past 24 Hours Snow:
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Game Thread

Comments (173) -

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 2:04:24 PM #

ctrent ‏@ctrent  6m
I'm always amazed at the job the #Reds groundscrew does & how resilient the GABP field is pic.twitter.com/mwK3B9KCEA


It is pretty amazing that the field looks this good after the way it looked when the game was finally called last night.  Lots of people put in some OT here I would guess

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 2:17:19 PM #

TOOTBLAN Tracker ‏@TOOTBLANTime  4m
NYTimes notices that the #Cubs haven't been very good compared to #Yankees http://ow.ly/vP0A1  #Analysis

some good quotes in that article:
To quote Royko again: “The Chicago Cubs, like life itself, are a losing cause. That’s why we have cemeteries. And Wrigley Field.”

“I’d play for half of my salary if I could hit in this dump all the time,” an appreciative Babe Ruth said of Wrigley Field after the World Series sweep of 1932.

Reply

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
4/15/2014 2:17:54 PM #

Lots of good stuff at the end of yesterdays thread in case anyone missed it.

I was numbing myself from the thoughts of the awful pitching performances yesterday. I am still in a fog.

One astounding thing is how well Bailey had the splitter going. That was near unhittable late in his start. But shit, he was missing Mesoraco's glove by a significant amount with the fastball and the curveball. He looks fine but his head isn't there. I think the abnormal spring might have him off some.

He may be the exact pitcher as Mike Leake according to AAT so if that is the case he has to be a lot better than the first 3 outings have shown.

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 2:26:54 PM #

Some things to think about in this article about who needs TJ surgery and why.


But in a sport in which 24.2 percent of players on Opening Day rosters grew up in Latin America, only one of the 20 Tommy John patients came from there (Detroit reliever Bruce Rondon, of Venezuela).

Read More: sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.../#ixzz2yyu11c00

Reply

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
4/15/2014 2:29:25 PM #

So while trying to forget the pain of yesterday and frankly the entire season I tried to contemplate the last time I was truly happy.

It didn't take long. It was Sunday night and I was watching HBO. Thats all I have to say.

Then it lead me into another conversation with myself and i was having trouble answering myself.

King Joffrey is potentially one of the most dis-likable characters TV has ever brought us. Over the years there have been many villains in TV and movies but somehow the writers make us feel for them or have some sympathy or empathy for them.

In recent years many villains have you pulling for them like Tony Soprano or Omar from the Wire or Nucky Thompson. They all do despicable things but deep down you like something about them. They are complex characters.

Joffrey has no redeeming qualities. He is an awful person who only a mother could love...maybe.

I was racking my brain to come up with a character in any show, book or movie that could make me want to kill them. I think Gleeson(the actor portraying Joffrey) might need to fear for his life somewhere in the back of his head.

This kid is one and done. He's says he retiring from acting. It might be difficult to get another role after being hated so much.

Who else compares? thoughts?

Reply

Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 3:05:19 PM #

There's a character named Negan in the Walking Dead comic book who's on Joffrey's level. Or at least he was for the first ten issues he exists (Robert Kirkman doesn't let anyone be totally good or bad for more than a dozen issues).

If you ever watched Spartacus on Starz, there's a guy named Glabber who's worse than Joffrey. He's the reason Spartacus is a slave in the first place, and he gets worse ever second he's on screen.

As far as characters go, I can't think of anyone else even close.

There's definitely an actor parallel though - the kid who played Anakin in The Phantom Menace. Google his post Star Wars career; that movie (and the reaction from the fans) absolutely destroyed his life. It's sad and makes me feel guilty for all the bad things I've said about that movie over the years.

Reply

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
4/15/2014 4:29:52 PM #

Jar Jar was pretty bad but at least he doesn't have the human backlash.

I think Joaquin Phoenix in Gladiator was a pretty awful person and never gained any sympathy from anyone. His demise was fantastic.

Reply

Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 4:34:53 PM #

Yep. Forgot about him.

Reply

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
4/15/2014 4:40:46 PM #

just googled it and seems Jack Gleeson may have used that character for inspiration.

Reply

Frank_Robinsons_Ghost
Frank_Robinsons_Ghost
4/15/2014 4:39:55 PM #

[channel Jar Jar Binks]  Awwwww, Mister Champ!  Meesa thinks yousa hurt Jar Jar's feelings!  That not niceeey!"  [/channel Jar Jar Binks]

Reply

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
4/15/2014 5:10:16 PM #

if there is any justice in the world somehow JJ Abrams will have Jar Jar dead in a flashback.

Reply

DocProc
DocProc
4/15/2014 3:37:49 PM #

For the record, it is COLD here--and the wind is strong and biting.  I can't believe these teams will play a minimum of 12 innings in this weather tonight.

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 3:45:38 PM #


we can hope that they only play 11 (2.5 and 8.5) with the Reds not needing their final AB

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 3:55:57 PM #

John Fay ‏@johnfayman  7m
Price would not say who will be pitching when the game resumes. Hoover is still in the game. Snider will lead off 7th. #reds

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 4:16:14 PM #

Doug Gray ‏@dougdirt24  3m
The Kansas City Royals have two fewer home runs than Devin Mesoraco does. Devin Mesoraco has 17 at bats.

cherry picking stats, but still interesting

Reply

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
4/15/2014 5:16:01 PM #

ctrent ‏@ctrent 1m

Sam LeCure is warming up for the #Reds — wouldn’t be surprised to see a double switch with 9th spot leading off bottom of 7th

Reply

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
4/15/2014 5:17:24 PM #

If umps had any sense they would have done this yesterday after 5

Marc Topkin ‏@TBTimes_Rays 2m

#Rays game called off

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 5:27:15 PM #

John Fay ‏@johnfayman  35s
Was a double switch. Santiago in at SS, batting ninth. LeCure pitching batting 8th. #reds

Reply

DocProc
DocProc
4/15/2014 5:29:49 PM #

LeCure gets a K and doesn't give up a HR.  Good start.

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 5:31:42 PM #

high and tight from LeCure to McCutcheon--that may move him back a bit

Reply

DocProc
DocProc
4/15/2014 5:31:55 PM #

McCutcheon appears to have tweaked something spinning away from chin music from LeCure.

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 5:35:27 PM #

did not stop him from doubling and then going to third on a wild pitch

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 5:37:30 PM #

and the seventh starts out a lot like the first inning did

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 5:38:52 PM #

8-7 Rats mid 7

Reply

genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 5:41:20 PM #

Rats.

I think we have seen this movie.

Reply

genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 5:44:57 PM #

Not good.

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 5:45:17 PM #

Reds leave a runner on third and do not score-Rats up 8-7 end of 7

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 5:53:57 PM #

LeCure not looking as sharp as last year--and Cowboy said his velocity is down around 85.

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 5:56:39 PM #

John Fay ‏@johnfayman  1m
LeCure's struggling to throw strikes 17 balls, 17 strikes. #reds

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 5:59:31 PM #

LeCure leaves two on, still trails Rats 8-7 mid 8

Reply

genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 6:01:11 PM #

Lecure really struggling with location today. I guess we are lucky to be only down one--thanks in part to his mental toughness--not to slight a great play by Frazier to start the inning.

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 6:08:55 PM #

damn--time runnng out and the Rats still lead 8-7 end of 8

Reply

genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 6:09:28 PM #

0-3 with RISP since the restart.

I must admit, I am not feeling good right now.

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Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 6:09:37 PM #

Scoring chances in the seventh and eighth innings frittered away. That's the story if the first two weeks of the season, unfortunately.

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genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 6:22:07 PM #

Yep.

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 6:20:57 PM #

Final three outs coming up trailing by one

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genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 6:21:40 PM #

I wonder if BP had any idea who was running there?

Just curious.

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 6:29:14 PM #

crap--offense frozen in first game as the Pirates take the game 8-7

Reply

genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 6:30:24 PM #

Sucky ending yet again.

Man, 19 runs in the last 2 games, and we are 1-1.

We are inventing ways not to win early on.

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Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 6:32:05 PM #

You guys can have all the confidence in the world. As for me, I think this is a 75 win team. We lost 7 WAR in the offseason, did nothing to replace it, and three teams in our division seem to be legit contenders (Milwaukee had an underrated offseason, the Cardinals had a properly rated great one, and Pittsburgh's young talent is getting better and better).

Point is, I don't see a scenario where we're better than 4th place in this division. And playing 57 games against those three teams? We'll finish several games under .500, I think.

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Frank_Robinsons_Ghost
Frank_Robinsons_Ghost
4/15/2014 6:42:30 PM #

There are multiple scenarios, but the one you describe is possible.

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Frank_Robinsons_Ghost
Frank_Robinsons_Ghost
4/15/2014 6:39:37 PM #

We may not have adequately considered the impact on the Reds' record of the Astros leaving the NL Central.

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 7:11:35 PM #

That swing by Marte for the K was on a ball so far out of the strike zone there was a chance it gets by Mesoraco --but he lunged and got it

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 7:13:28 PM #

Wow--Leake strikes out the side on TEN pitches
0-0 mid one

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 7:16:12 PM #

and if I remember correctly, there were not even any foul strikes

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 7:19:05 PM #

Votto certainly hitting the ball well lately

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 7:21:33 PM #

a hit and no runs for the Reds in the first; 0-0

Reply

genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 7:29:03 PM #

On the team, aspirations expectations,, etc.

I have been around way too long to get anything but upset early on, not depressed, ready to throw he towel in on the season, etc., etc..

I have seen horrible starts turn around way too many times--in all sports. I might add, it happens more often in baseball than any other sport--long, long season and the nature if the game, where the very best teams only win 6 of 10 for the year--or, there about.

It is, as FRG says, possible we play poorly all year, but I don't think so? I really don't think any of us should have really expected too much this month with 8 of the guys we wanted to come north with being on the DL--32% of the team. Lord, that is a monstrous percentage!

I think I will just be patient, see hat happens.

I am to old to do anything else.

Reply

bjsReds1
bjsReds1
4/15/2014 7:39:50 PM #

I get what you are saying, but other than Homer and one or two bullpen meltdowns, the pitching has been as expected and that's where the injuries are.

The offense has been the problem and other than Mes for the first week, they have been healthy.  This team has to hit with RISP.  I'm not sure they can against the pitching in this division.

I hate to say it, but Ash may be right.

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Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 7:35:14 PM #

It's not really even about us for me, Gene. We've played good teams (outside of the Mets), and they've just been better. I mean look at this inning for the Pirates - when's the last time we got a 2 out RBI single? Have we even had one of those this year?

These other teams are good. They execute in a way that the Reds haven't in years. I mean even in 2012 we weren't great in the clutch, it doesn't seem. We won in other ways.

We're good enough to come close and lose to good teams. And I think we have three of those in our division.

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bjsReds1
bjsReds1
4/15/2014 7:44:25 PM #

Yeah.  This is on Walt.  This team is just not good at clutch hitting outside of Votto and BP to an extent.  Mes has looked ok also.  The others, including Bruce, just can't do it against good pitching enough.  BHam was supposed to be the wild card that allowed the team to overcome those issues.  He's on the verge of playing himself back to AAA.

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 7:36:13 PM #

a much longer inning for Leake in the second (36 pitches total in game) and a run scored to make it 1-0 Pittsburgh mid 2

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genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 7:42:39 PM #

Ash,

Not fussing, just feel a little different on the season as a whole.

You are right, we have not been a clutch hitting team for the most part the last 2-3 years, not a great fundamental offensive team, but solid defense and outstanding pitching. Much like Pittsburg last year--they were horrible on offense, but had great pitching, sold defense, won 94 games.. Still, we score a lot of runs, even if by the HR, etc., and certainly mostly against weaker pitchers, but we got enough offense to win  if we ever get close to healthy. If we don't get relatively healthy, it won't matter , of course..

Truth is, most of the teams we have played thus far have not hit the ball very well against our good guys either, just a weak pen , that should be corrected soon, and Homer. They have scored just enough to beat us, for sure.

I still have faith we will be OK

Reply

Frank_Robinsons_Ghost
Frank_Robinsons_Ghost
4/15/2014 7:46:47 PM #

Damn, Cozart had a pathetic "AB".

Reply

genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 7:49:35 PM #

Yep, it's like he does not remember why he began to hit well the second half last year. When he leaps at the ball, he either pops it up, or, hits the ball into a 3 foot square area around third base.

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 7:47:39 PM #

and a runner stranded at third  for the Reds
1-0 Rats end of 2

Reply

Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 7:47:57 PM #

If there's a worse offensive player on a contender than Zack Cozart, I would be shocked.

Reply

DocProc
DocProc
4/15/2014 7:50:35 PM #

I can't dispute that.  Our guys had some good ABs to get runners on first and third, and Cozart wipes out the inning with one stupid swing.

Reply

Ashlandateam
Ashlandateam
4/15/2014 7:50:51 PM #

You know who would look really nice in a Reds uni and in this lineup? Free agent to be JJ Hardy. I'd imagine that if we had, say, $105 million to spend, we could have him this offseason. Heck, I'm pretty sure if we had that, we could sign him and have enough leftover to add another piece or two.

Of course, Walt told us in January that we don't have any money, so I suppose giving money to free agents is just out of the question.

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Frank_Robinsons_Ghost
Frank_Robinsons_Ghost
4/15/2014 7:58:34 PM #

If we want someone like that, there is a decent chance we could trade someone like Homer for him -- assuming Homer regresses to his mean as the season goes on.

There are multiple benefits to locking up a power pitcher with two no-hitters long-term.

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 7:54:12 PM #

still 1-0 Pittsburgh mid 3

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 7:57:28 PM #

Leake gets his first hit of the season--a double  off the left field wall

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Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 7:58:48 PM #

I sure love Leake!

Reply

Frank_Robinsons_Ghost
Frank_Robinsons_Ghost
4/15/2014 7:59:36 PM #

Votto, on the other hand, is hitting well so far this year.

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 8:00:05 PM #

tie game--second single of the game for Votto

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 8:03:44 PM #

rally dies with another GBDP; tied at 1-1 end of 3

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genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 8:04:55 PM #

Could have been more, but I guess we will take one there.

Now, we need to shut them down this inning--something we have not been very good at this year after scoring--especially Homer.

Reply

btalbert25
btalbert25
4/15/2014 8:05:26 PM #

My friends, Mr Votto is going to have a legendary season

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bjsReds1
bjsReds1
4/15/2014 8:06:20 PM #

I feel confident in saying that Votto is back to his old self both in terms of power and hitting with RISP and clutch situations.  That is the good news.

The bad news is this team has too many holes in it's lineup in terms of players that crap the bed consistently in big ABs.  It's not that they hit into bad double plays or fail to get runners  in from 3rd with less than two outs.  It's the way they do it.  It's hitting into a double play on the first pitch of one of those ABs.  Or hitting a weak popup on a 2-0 count in those situations.  Things these guys do regularly.

Those things are going to happen to guys like Votto.  But the rest of these guys seem to do it regularly.  My personal opinion is this team needs an upgrade at 2 positions between SS, 3B, and LF.  Depending on how Hamilton pans out, I might add CF to the list.  That's just too many weaknesses.

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 8:10:11 PM #

strong arm by Bruce, right on the money, but McCutcheon runs too well and  is safe on 3rd

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Frank_Robinsons_Ghost
Frank_Robinsons_Ghost
4/15/2014 8:12:46 PM #

The apartment is not rejoicing.

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 8:12:51 PM #

damn--that looked like DP but leake throws it into CF

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Frank_Robinsons_Ghost
Frank_Robinsons_Ghost
4/15/2014 8:13:15 PM #

2 mistakes by Leake on one play.  He should have done what Votto just did.

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DocProc
DocProc
4/15/2014 8:17:38 PM #

It was so lame-brained.  Not like the Leake I'm used to, who always seems to have his head in the game.

Mez was MAD at the plate for not getting the throw.

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bjsReds1
bjsReds1
4/15/2014 8:13:34 PM #

This is just not a good fundamental baseball team in any way except pitching.  They haven't been a good fundamental team since Scott Rolen was an every day player.

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genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 8:16:46 PM #

Well, ....

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 8:17:24 PM #

Leake gets out of the inning with just one run, but trails 2-1 mid 4

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 8:27:39 PM #

quick 5th for Leake, still down 2-1 mid 5

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 8:40:00 PM #

two left on and no runs for the Reds in the 5th; down 2-1

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genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 8:40:03 PM #

BP's best swing of the night--unfortunately, line drive right at the RF.

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 8:45:46 PM #

nice play by Cozart for the third out; still 2-1 Rats mid 6

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genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 8:46:08 PM #

OK, I am calling for a couple of runs.

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River Otter
River Otter
4/15/2014 8:52:04 PM #

Good call!

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 8:52:59 PM #

CALL FOR MORE!!

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DocProc
DocProc
4/15/2014 8:53:18 PM #

Nice call, Gene.

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DocProc
DocProc
4/15/2014 8:51:58 PM #

KO FRAZIER!!!

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 8:52:16 PM #


KO FRAZIER!!!!

Reply

Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 8:54:27 PM #

Gene the Prophet.

Also, if Mesoraco and Frazier just hit 35 homers apiece, I won't worry about what percentage of our runs are on homers, because we'd have 130 or so from those two, Bruce, and Votto, and would win plenty of games.

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DocProc
DocProc
4/15/2014 8:57:28 PM #

I wouldn't mind being a pitching, defense, and thumping team.

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DocProc
DocProc
4/15/2014 8:58:33 PM #

Reminds me of the old Earl Weaver recipe:  "Pitching, defense, and 3-run homers."

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Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 8:57:19 PM #

We now have 2 guys in our lineup hitting less than .100. And neither guy is the pitcher. That's an incredible thing.

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DocProc
DocProc
4/15/2014 8:59:00 PM #

LEAKE THUMPING!

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Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 8:59:22 PM #

Mike Leake!!! Fuck yeah!!!

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DocProc
DocProc
4/15/2014 9:01:00 PM #

There's your answer, Otter.  Smile

Reply

River Otter
River Otter
4/15/2014 8:59:31 PM #

I'm guessing there's a party in the apartment

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 8:59:39 PM #

John Fay ‏@johnfayman  8s
Leake makes it 5-2 with a two-run rocket. #reds

he's getting his hitting moxie as well!!


LEAKER!!!

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genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 9:00:28 PM #

Or, FOUR!!!!

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:00:47 PM #

5-2 Reds end of 6

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:01:06 PM #

ctrent ‏@ctrent  1m
Overheard in the press box ‘Watch, for the next five minutes I’ll get nothing but, ‘can Mike Leake play shortstop’ tweets

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DocProc
DocProc
4/15/2014 9:03:11 PM #

Okay, that's great.  Smile

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Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 9:01:06 PM #

Nothing makes the apartment happier than Leake bombs!!! Have I mentioned I love that guy?! Because I LOVE THAT GUY!!!!

Reply

bjsReds1
bjsReds1
4/15/2014 9:01:31 PM #

If Frazier would attempt to hit it the other way more consistently, he'd be a much better hitter.  Mesoraco is on his way to being an All Star.

If baseball ever creates a designated fielder position then Cozart will have it made.  He is not as bad as he is going now, but he has to be the dumbest hitter in baseball.  He never learns.

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Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 9:03:56 PM #

The apartment would like to point out that even with that last popup, Chris Heisey is hitting .320 and has as many steals as Hamilton.

Why can't he play center field every day? Forget Ludwick; just give Heisey a shot out there.

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:06:35 PM #

Tater Trot Tracker ‏@TaterTrotTrkr  27s
Reds pitcher Mike Leake sprints around the bases on a shot to left in 18.68 secs. You might say he really stole the show with that trot.

and it took Big Papi nearly twice that a couple of day s ago

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Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 9:08:19 PM #

This is a rather bad start to this inning.

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:12:34 PM #

Ishakawa is one of the only baseball players I have seen wearing a ski mask to bat--it can't be that cold

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:13:33 PM #

very timely K for the second out right there

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Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:15:37 PM #

Eye on Baseball ‏@EyeOnBaseball  45s
Cardinals had two runners caught in run-downs between third and home in the same inning. Yikes.

but can they do it on the same play?  the Reds can and did

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Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 9:17:03 PM #

Boom. Suck on that Cardinals.

Also, Manny Parra against a lefty terrifies me.

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DocProc
DocProc
4/15/2014 9:18:25 PM #

Huh?

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Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 9:21:59 PM #

I was being sarcastic about how the Reds were better at getting into run downs than the Cardinals, playing off Mary's sarcasm.

And, I said something about Parra before I realized the Pirates were pinch hitting.

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:16:36 PM #

John Fay ‏@johnfayman  52s
That's it for Leake. Hit Marte with an 0-2 pitch. 110/73. Parra in. #reds

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:19:50 PM #

Parra gets the third out to keep the score 5-3 Reds mid 7

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Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 9:20:29 PM #

Yeah Parra!

That saves a quality start for Leake. 6.2 innings, 3 runs, 8 KS, and 2-3 with a double and a homer? Man I love that guy!!

Reply

genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 9:20:48 PM #

Man, Leake has guts--and ll the pitches necessary to be very good for a long, long time, a No. 3A starter--along with being a innings eater.

Oh, and PH!!

Reply

Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 9:23:55 PM #

It may just be what we perceive and it could be totally wrong. But.

Imagine how good of a pitcher we'd have if you combined Mike Leake's head/heart/guts with Bailey's arm? I really think you'd have a perennial All-Star/Cy Young candidate there.

Reply

genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 9:40:08 PM #

Hard to argue that.

Reply

DocProc
DocProc
4/15/2014 9:23:29 PM #

First time Cole has given up more than four runs.  Nice to see us hitting a good pitcher.

Reply

Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 9:24:27 PM #

Absolutely.

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:23:47 PM #

third hit of the night for Votto (and 4th time on base, but down two broken bats)

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:28:51 PM #

Bruce was robbed by Marte right there

Reply

DocProc
DocProc
4/15/2014 9:30:02 PM #

If I'm not mistaken, the ump just heard the Pirates bench call for the intentional walk and told the catcher.

Reply

River Otter
River Otter
4/15/2014 9:30:39 PM #

This would be a good time for a Mesorocket to ice the game

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:31:07 PM #

Bernadino beat that out--thought he was going to be out for sure

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:32:59 PM #

John Fay ‏@johnfayman  3m
18,462 brave souls in attendance. 34 degrees right now. #reds

and none of those 18, 462 is DocProc

Reply

DocProc
DocProc
4/15/2014 9:35:25 PM #

That is correct!  No regrets.  Smile

Reply

DocProc
DocProc
4/15/2014 9:34:09 PM #

You know what's funny?  Probably the three best hitters in Spring Training were Heisey, Bernadina, and BHam.  All our center fielders.  (And though he's not much a CF, Schumaker was the other best hitter in ST)

Reply

DocProc
DocProc
4/15/2014 9:35:44 PM #

Mez is on fire.

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:35:49 PM #

Snacks drives in two with his single--what a start he has this season!!

Reply

Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 9:36:23 PM #

Mesoraco is amazing.

Remember when he was in the apartment for like three weeks? Then I took him out? I'm regretting taking him out now.

Reply

bjsReds1
bjsReds1
4/15/2014 9:39:30 PM #

Invite him back.  Then ask him for Price's number so that you can tell Price to move him up in the batting order.

Reply

DocProc
DocProc
4/15/2014 9:40:21 PM #

I'm looking for new apartment mates.  If I thought Bernadina would get more playing time, I'd invite him in.

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:40:27 PM #

it *was* getting pretty crowded in there

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:37:45 PM #

12-7-7 (so far) runs scored by the Reds in the last 3 games

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:38:13 PM #

7-3 Reds end of 7

Reply

genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 9:39:26 PM #

Looking up for the good guys.

That was Cozart's best swing of the night as well--for naught, but his best.

Mes is one strong kid.

Great hustle by Beradino as well.

Reply

bjsReds1
bjsReds1
4/15/2014 9:41:40 PM #

Every time Cozart or Frazier swung at the first or second pitch and pulled a routine ground ball to left side, I'd make them do the Willie Mays Hays 20 push ups.  

When those guys drive the ball back up the box or go opposite field, good things happen.

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:44:49 PM #

nice 3-4-1 GBDP

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:45:22 PM #

challenge coming up--did Parra stay on the bag long enough?

Reply

DocProc
DocProc
4/15/2014 9:46:11 PM #

I think he beat the throw anyway.

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:45:44 PM #

ctrent ‏@ctrent  2m
First 11 games, #Reds had 28 runs (tied for fewest in the majors), they now have 26 in the last three games (with at least one at-bat left)

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:47:39 PM #

it looked like he was safe to me--and the review team agrees

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:50:34 PM #

wooooooos..

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:51:26 PM #

yikes--Walker hits a 2 run HR and the lead is cut to 2

Reply

Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 9:51:27 PM #

If Neil Walker played the Reds 162 times a year, he'd be the bet player of all time.

Reply

genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 9:54:53 PM #

I was just thinking the same thing--HOF at worst.

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:53:25 PM #

7-5 Reds mid 8; Gene, tell them to score a couple more runs, please

Reply

genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 9:55:28 PM #

Consider it done!

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:56:26 PM #

think Billy has seen his teammate's stolen bases tonight?

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 9:58:08 PM #

what?  Gomez is no Cole apparently, as BHam is the first caught stealing of the game

Reply

Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 10:01:56 PM #

Good to see a 4-4 for Joey.

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 10:02:25 PM #

4th hit of the game (and 5th time on base) for Votto; don't think he had to sacrifice a bat this time, though

Reply

bjsReds1
bjsReds1
4/15/2014 10:03:54 PM #

The Reds need to come up with a better strategy for BHam in terms of when to run and when not to.  He ran them out of a run this inning.  Just having his speed on base is a big enough threat.

Reply

bjsReds1
bjsReds1
4/15/2014 10:04:31 PM #

Might have ran them out of a run.  Come on Bruce.

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 10:06:10 PM #

Well, Big Brox is coming in with a two run lead trying to get his first save of the year (and the Reds second as a team)

Reply

genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 10:06:51 PM #

I don't mind telling you, I am nervous with Broxton's first chance at a save coming off his DL stint--maybe because we have lost so many close games already?

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 10:07:20 PM #

may be premature, but I'm just glad it's not Hoover

Reply

DocProc
DocProc
4/15/2014 10:09:25 PM #

Brox kind of looks like a mega version of Hoover.  Hope he pitches better.

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 10:07:36 PM #

ctrent ‏@ctrent  28s
Bernadina moves to LF from CF, Hamilton stays in the game.  Broxton is in the leadoff spot in the order.

Reply

DocProc
DocProc
4/15/2014 10:11:38 PM #

When it comes time to give Jay Bruce a day off, an outfield of Bernadina, BHam, and Heisey will be plenty quick.

Reply

Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 10:12:06 PM #

Jonathan Broxton scares the crap out of me.

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 10:17:43 PM #

damn--McCutcheon gets a chance to ruin things with that walk to Tabata

Reply

Ashlandateam2
Ashlandateam2
4/15/2014 10:18:03 PM #

Anytime you can walk a 4th outfielder to get to the reigning league MVP with the game on the line, you just have to do that.

I hate Broxton so much.

Reply

bjsReds1
bjsReds1
4/15/2014 10:22:16 PM #

Atta baby!

Reply

River Otter
River Otter
4/15/2014 10:22:28 PM #

Suck it, Pie Rats.  Good win for the Reds.

Reply

Ashlandateam
Ashlandateam
4/15/2014 10:22:46 PM #

That inning was exhausting. I can't wait for Chapman to get back.

Reply

Mary
Mary
4/15/2014 10:22:52 PM #

WHEW!! REDS WIN!!!

Reply

genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 10:23:28 PM #

Just to think, I thought CoCo was long gone!

Reply

Ashlandateam
Ashlandateam
4/15/2014 10:25:03 PM #

That's a great win all around. But yeah, what Gene said. It felt like 2010 all over again, and not in a good way.

Reply

genewv
genewv
4/15/2014 10:26:15 PM #

Broxton is still far from having his good fast ball, but savvy enough to get by tonight.

Tomorrow, my guess is neiother Broxton or Lecure will be available. Pen will be slim, Johnny needs to be good--and efficient,  and Big O on his game.

Reply

btalbert25
btalbert25
4/15/2014 10:54:41 PM #

Big W tonight.  Offense is coming around it appears.  For all the bad and pissing and moaning a lot of us (myself included) have done to this point, there's a good bit to be positive about surrounding this team.  Mes has been tearing the cover off the ball.  Joey looks like a top 3 in the league kind of hitter.  Looks like, so far, we're getting more of a 2012 version of Frazier.  Phillips is hitting the ball too.  

We need some of these pitchers to turn it around a bit.  I have a good feeling Homer will be fine.  He's did miss a fair amount of time in spring.  Probably would have got some rehab work if Latos weren't hurt too.  I think we'll turn it around here.  Looking forward to the rest of the year.

Reply

genewv
genewv
4/16/2014 7:57:24 AM #

Hey gang, just checking in to say you guys and gals will have to hold the fort today, as I will be gone for a couple of appointments for the wife--starting at 1:00--how inconvenient!

I will tape the action, watch it later--especially if we win!

Reply

DocProc
DocProc
4/16/2014 7:59:47 AM #

I read something in the paper this morning.  When the Reds pinch hit for Santiago at the conclusion of the first game, it meant they had no infielders left to replace him if the game went to extras.  If that had happened, they planned to play Billy Hamilton at short.

Reply

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RedsOctober.com | 11-11-(20)11: Congratulations you have been promoted from fan to General Manager of the Reds for 2012..

11-11-(20)11: Congratulations you have been promoted from fan to General Manager of the Reds for 2012..

by Ohioredsfan1 10. November 2011 17:36

November 2011. (RSVP news):  The Cincinnati Reds today announced the resignation of Walt Jocketty as general manager of the team. Jocketty explained the reason for his resignation as getting too much pressure from a certain website known as RedsOctober. The site had been pressuring Walt to quit sitting around contemplating his next move and to actually do something of significance to improve the Reds for 2012. Robert Castellini, owner of the Reds, said that now Walt could spend even more time at his country club.

 

-

In further news Mr. Castellini announced that since the fans are so well informed he has picked a general manager from one of them. The new general manager will have a payroll of 88 million dollars, of which 62.8 million is already committed.

-

The new GM must decide which of these Arbitration eligible players he will sign and for how much:

Volquez (1.6 million in 2011)   Massett (1.54)   Bray (.65)   Arredondo  (.48)   Bailey (.44)  and Janish (.44)

 

The new GM must decide whether to resign the following Free Agents and for how much:

Hernandez,   Cordero, Renteria , and Willis.  Remember that Hernandez and Cordero are type A free agents.

 

Finally Mr. Castellini said that since all fans want to make blockbuster trades, he will allow one blockbuster trade to be made by the new GM, providing the overall payroll does not exceed 88 million dollars.

 -

So now as the new GM you have your assignment, what’cha gonna do when the fans turn on you..

Tags:

Off Season Ramblings

Comments (333) -

rpa
rpa
11/10/2011 6:17:56 PM #

I start by canning Baker and replacing him with whomever doesn't get the gig in Chicago and St Louis.  Mackanin?  Alomar Jr?  Sveum?  Anyone, really, who has a chance at handling a young team.  I am willing to spend money on that.

I'm too lazy to look up numbers, but after that I'd probably look to deal Votto to the highest bidder.  I want a package something like Pineda and Ackley from the Ms.  Will throw in Volquez and Stubbs to make that deal work if necessary.  I tell Phillips he can walk after 2012.  Spend the money you save minus Votto to go get a LF (Willingham?) plan on playing Heisey in CF unless a better option becomes apparent.  Offer Hernandez arb, let Cordero walk (don't want to risk him accepting).  Assume I can trade Volquez for something (throw in for the Votto deal?  A ham sandwich?)  Masset, Bray, Bailey, Janish get arb.  Bye bye to Renteria and Willis.  

Going into the spring I try to stretch out Chapman and see if Ackley can play a little bit of 3B or LF.  Long term plan is Chapman as a SP or a 'lesson learned" and Ackley at 2B after Phillips' contract is up.  If all goes well, I end up with this:

Mesoraco/Hanigan C
Alonso 1B
Phillips 2B
Cozart SS
Rolen/Francisco/Frazier/Ackley 3B
Janish UT
Wililngham LF
Heisey CF
Bruce RF
random non-roster/minor league OF
random non-roster/minor league OF

Pineda SP
Cueto SP
Arroyo SP
Bailey/Leake SP
Wood/Chapman SP

non-roster or FA or Bailey RH RP
non-roster or FA  or Horst or Wood, LH RP
Lecure RP
Masset RP
Boxberger RP (hopefully closer by the end of the year)
Ondrusek RP
Bray RP

Team will cost about the same as last year, and I guarantee they would win at least as many games.  Progress?  Maybe... but it sets the team up better for the long-term and doesn't hurt them too much in the short term.

ohioredsfan1
ohioredsfan1
11/10/2011 6:59:03 PM #

RPA

Not sure if i would make the trade you mentioned but if I did then it would be Votto only for Pineda and Ackley...if any extra players were going to be thrown in then it would have to come from M's

rpa
rpa
11/10/2011 7:27:56 PM #

PIneda and Ackley both have two PRE-ARB years left.  5 years of team control of their top two young players is worth A LOT.  I would expect them to demand more than Votto for these two.  And I think it would be worth it - Ackley is going to be a heck of a ballplayer.  

If I am being honest, I doubt the Mariners would be willing to part with Ackley at all.  If they have anyone "untouchable", it's him.

genewv
genewv
11/10/2011 8:27:00 PM #

ORF,

Really neat "stories" you developed to get all we RO junkies our promotions, budget, etc.

I am impressed.

That said, all know i don't know enough about other teams to begin to talk trades, etc. I will do what i do with Walt--[b]wait till he makes the moves--or not--and then be critical, disagree![b] Should be interesting.

genewv
genewv
11/10/2011 8:28:14 PM #

Some happened to my fonts! Oh well, no one is surprised, i am sure.

genewv
genewv
11/10/2011 8:29:56 PM #

My someTHING as well. I started to say my "thing," but the jokes would have ran wild, I know my friends.

ohioredsfan1
ohioredsfan1
11/10/2011 8:42:36 PM #

Gene,
I am sure no one in this illustrious group would have misconstrued what you were saying and ran wild with the jokes...no not this group...lol

genewv
genewv
11/10/2011 9:10:15 PM #

Of course not. Stellar group, they are!

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/10/2011 9:20:21 PM #

Don't resign Sancho, Cordero, Janish, Willis or Hernandez.

Sign all the arbitration players for whatever (I really don't know details here.

Make two trades:

ATL Gets: Drew Stubbs, Homer Bailey, Kristopher Negron
CIN Gets: Martin Prado, Jair Jurjjens

and

COL Gets: Edinson Volquez, Nick Masset, Todd Frazier
CIN Gets: Huston Street and Matt Belisle

Your lineup:

Phillips 4
Cozart 6
Votto 3
Rolen/Francisco/Prado 5
Bruce 9
Heisey 8
Prado/Alonso 7
Mes/Hanigan 2

Rotation:
Cueto
Arroyo
Jurjjens
Leake
Chapman

Bullpen:
Street
Belisle
Ondrusek
Bray
Boxberger
LeCure

Done and done. Get a random aging shortstop to backup Cozart, and that team wins 90 games in 2012 AND stays within the $88 mil budget.

rpa
rpa
11/10/2011 9:27:00 PM #

Any trade that forces me to watch Matt Belisle in a Reds uniform again is an instant non starter.

I wish it were cursing night.  I would have something colorful to say about Matt Belisle.

ashlandateam
ashlandateam
11/10/2011 9:30:19 PM #

Matt Belisle has been a stud out of the bullpen for the Rockies. He's been great pretty much ever since he left Cincinnati.

rpa
rpa
11/10/2011 11:07:34 PM #

I don't care.  He's still Matt Belisle, worst pitcher I have ever seen.  Ever.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/11/2011 11:31:48 AM #

Let's bring back Kip Wells while we're at it!

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/11/2011 11:33:35 AM #

Joe Mays! Esteban Yan!

Oh the Wayne Krivsky year.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/11/2011 12:12:44 PM #

I heard Todd Coffey and his forklift can be had cheap.

rpa
rpa
11/10/2011 11:39:22 PM #

Randomness and off topic, because it's what I do best.

1) This article from April seems downright creepy now:
www.timesonline.com/.../...-9ae5-001a4bcf6878.html

2) I find it telling that two of my favorite songs from what is probably my favorite "recent" band have shown up on the new B&B episodes.  I still have some kind of weird attachment to this song, and I think it's the best video of the last 5 years or so:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyaDTiXH3R4

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/11/2011 11:35:31 AM #

To be honest, I cannot stop listening to the Milo Greene song Amy shared the other day.  I see The Civil Wars are going to be playing in Atlanta in a few months.  I would love to go, but will be a tough sell to get my wife to come along.  She hates country music, thinks I'm trying to turn her into a "Vietnamese Redneck"

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/10/2011 11:39:30 PM #

Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Confirmed: Pujols will meet with #Marlins on Friday or Saturday in Miami. First reported by @MatthewHLeach of MLB.com. #STLCards #MLB

SilentBob
SilentBob
11/10/2011 11:41:03 PM #

Great idea ORF, I wish I had the energy to do proper research and come up with a great roster. Alas. I'm just too lazy.

RPA, I noticed that you would offer Hernandez arb yet still project Snacks/Hanigan at catcher. I'm assuming you think he would turn down arbitration? Probably a good assumption but if he accepts it could get interesting. If Hernandez wins the Reds might be faced with keeping Snack at AAA for another year or trading Hanigan. As far as Pineda, I'm just not sold on the guy. He's had some elbow issues and I don't think his numbers against lefties are that impressive. From what I've read on M's blogs there is no way they give up Pineda and Ackley for Votto. They think they can get him for Pineda and an handful of near-misses, salary dumps and roster fillers.

Ash I don't see either of your trade proposals as realistic. Sorry, I just don't see enough return for the other team.

Going back to the last thread, does anyone else see the Jones signing as significant? It probably isn't, But I'm wondering if signing a left-handed bat for the OF means that maybe we might be trading a left handed OF ... or maybe a OF/1B?

rpa
rpa
11/11/2011 12:09:32 AM #

If Ramon accepts arb, I would trade Hanigan.   Neither one of them is really "the future", or... as you point out, it's easy to keep Mes at AAA for another year.  Extra seasoning doesn't hurt catchers, and I never want to pay a catcher much once they reach FA eligibility  -  those guys just regress super-fast once they hit 30 or so.  But, I think Hernandez' salary last year was modest enough, that faced with an arb situation he would feel he could get more on the market - not many catchers out there this year.  

As for the Ms giving up Pineda AND Ackley - I agree it's unlikely.  I seriously see it taking a Votto-Stubbs-Volquez package to even get them interested.  I think they'd trade Pineda (injury possibility vs. ability, it's a gamble I would take in the Reds' situation), but I don't know if they'd even consider dealing Ackley no matter what they were offered.  And for what it is worth, the Mariners' management wants a star to replace Ichiro.  I think they'd overpay to get an MVP in the lineup.

ashlandateam
ashlandateam
11/11/2011 12:08:01 AM #

SB,

You could be right on my trades. Two things though:

- Prado and Street are both being shopped. That means you can automatically drop their asking prices. Both teams simply want to free up money, and combined they make around what Cordero did in 2011. I think we can get both of them easily.

-Jurjjens is another story, but I really believe that Stubbs hasba ton of value to those who don't see him everyday. Think of it like this - he had a league average OBP, 30+ steals, played great D and hasn't yet reached arbitration... And that's WITH 200 Ks. He was a 2.6 win player, flaws and all; this guy is a major trade chip, even if he annoys some of us (ok. All of us). I think of all the players in my two made up trades, he has the most value.

You could certainly be right though.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
11/11/2011 12:28:03 AM #

Man...still to early to speculate this much. I could never do Walts job.

RPA assumes he turns it down and walks. My guess is there was a gentlemans agreement that if we didn't trade him he's not accept.

If he does accept we keep and deal him to whatever team has the biggest hole behind the plate. After ST someone is always worried about there position behind the plate.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
11/11/2011 12:52:02 AM #

some of you guys would kill to come down here for Orlando Calling. First day is right up the alley of several of you hipster types

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
11/11/2011 12:53:47 AM #

no way do you deal Hanigan. Hernandez was really bad down the stretch. He did almost nothing and his D sucked and he runs slower than my wife.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/11/2011 8:41:53 AM #

Hey Chap, I'll be down your way Dec. 18 -23. We're doing the harry Potter /Universal thing. God help me!

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
11/11/2011 11:19:17 AM #

god help you indeed. That place is going to be a nut house. The Harry potter thing is pretty damn cool. It rivals anything disney has done.

SilentBob
SilentBob
11/11/2011 1:20:43 AM #

I'm with you Champ. And as I've pointed out previously, almost every pitcher on the Reds roster has a higher ERA when Dog is behind the plate. On the other hand, with the current dearth of catchers who can hit a little, he could have some value to other teams. It might be worth it to offer arb. It could be a win/win for the Reds. If he declines we have the draft pick. If he accepts and loses we have a modestly priced catcher to trade. If he accepts and wins then we still have a market priced catcher to add to a trade package.
I think RPA might be onto something.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/11/2011 8:47:40 AM #

sports.yahoo.com/.../Pujols-to-visit-Marlins-Jose-Reyes-8216-almos

Marlings likely to add Reyes, Pujols to visit this weekned. Now we know where all that money went.......savings!

btalbert25
btalbert25
11/11/2011 9:11:52 AM #

I was going to say how the hell can the Marlins afford one of them much less both.  Perhaps they are expecting a spike in attendance with the new stadium?

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/11/2011 11:28:02 AM #

"The Marlins are scheduled to move into their new, $515 million ballpark by the beginning of the 2012 season. The team is contributing only $155 million of the domed ballpark's financing, with taxpayers funding the rest. Although the county will own the ballpark, the Marlins will get revenue from suites and advertising that they currently do not get at Sun Life Stadium, which is owned by Miami Dolphins owner Stephen Ross. Forbes has been showing for years that the Marlins have been among the most profitable teams in baseball, but politicians who voted for the publicly financed stadium said they were surprised to learn that the team was making so much money after the Marlins' financial documents were leaked. Owner Jeffrey Luria had been lining his pockets with money he has gotten from the league's revenue-sharing system instead of signing good players. Politicians could have saved taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars with a little more due diligence."

www.forbes.com/.../..._Florida-Marlins_336786.html

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/11/2011 11:32:53 AM #

Basically the Marlins are the giant Azz-hole of MLB revenue sharing. They didn't use their revenue sharing money on a new stadium. They haven't used it on player salaries. They haven't used it to pay down their debt (their debt is 40% of the team's value. That's top 10 in the league, and that includes stadium debt for each team. The issue w/ that is, the Marlins have little to no stadium debt for Sun Life Stadium, whereas many of the teams above them in debt as a percentage of value have a ton of stadium debt).

Thus, the Marlins likely have been saving and reinvesting the revenue sharing money. If they are looking at Reyes, Pujols AND Buerhle this offseason, I guess one can say that Loria's investments paid well.

The question is, do you blame the Marlins for doing this w/ their revenue sharing money, or do you praise them? We know teams like the Padres, Pirates, and Marlins don't spend as much as they get in revenue sharing on their actual roster. The Marlins have been reinvesting it. The Pirates have been fixing their minor league system. And I have no idea what the Padres have done.

Is that really that bad, as some owners have claimed it to be? I think it will eventually improve competitive balance. If there's one thing the owners of big market teams like the Cubs should know, throwing money at players to improve your big league squad is not the best of strategies. You have to be well rounded, or you have to spend 180 million bucks per year.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/11/2011 11:53:42 AM #

Makes business sense to me.  We heard the last few years that the key to getting good attendance figures is a) a solid season ticket base and b) a competitive team on the field.  Loria knows he was never going to get good season ticket numbers playing in the dump they were in, but he has a good shot with a new stadium opening in a good location.  Now, he adds to top FA's who happen to be of hispanic descent, and he feels he can be competitive and get fans to commit their dollars for season tickets or multi game packages

Amy
Amy
11/11/2011 11:35:09 AM #

Holy blockbuster, Walt:

www.redreporter.com/.../trade-rumors-ckershaw-ckoming-to-ckincinnati

Amy
Amy
11/11/2011 11:36:05 AM #

Opinions?

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/11/2011 11:38:09 AM #

Trade Rumors: CKershaw CKoming to CKincinnati?
by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 11, 2011 8:19 AM PST in Fake News



...........sorry to burst the bubble Frown

Amy
Amy
11/11/2011 11:39:40 AM #

Ugh. That's what I get for skimming. And being desperate for something to happen.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/11/2011 12:26:48 PM #

This Jamie Carroll signing has all the hallmarks of a Walt Jocketty signing.  Versatile player, not overly expensive, and a mystery team that nobody is talking about

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/11/2011 12:55:32 PM #

Jamey Carroll's actually been fairly valuable - he's hit .290/.379 and .291/359 the last couple seasons, and has been 2 win player each year.

I don't know why he'd come to Cincinnati, though -  we don't have a spot for him, and he's been playing basically every day the last couple years.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/11/2011 1:24:11 PM #

Timmy - I actually thought the same thing when I read that report.  If I'll likely scream. - won't be the first time mind you.

DocProc
DocProc
11/11/2011 1:23:48 PM #

Sorry, I'm late to this "be the new GM" discussion.

So here I go:

Fire Dusty, get a real hitting instructor, and trade Stubbs for a pitcher or a sandwich.

There.  I just added ten wins to our season.  I'll work out the rest of the details later.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/11/2011 2:04:46 PM #

Hideous. Home jersey's will reflect glare of sun into my eyes.

Road jerseys just look bleak. Who wears a black jersey? The White Sox? Yeah, they just look funny. Black w/ sunny orange and sky blue? Just weird.

eye-on-baseball.blogs.cbssports.com/.../33240352

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/11/2011 2:11:36 PM #

I like them. If you can't have the best looking uniforms, why not have the worst?

River Otter
River Otter
11/11/2011 5:43:20 PM #

My eyes!!!!

Actually, I don't mind them.  They seem appropriate for a team that plays in warm, tropical weather.

rpa
rpa
11/11/2011 11:59:30 PM #

Those aren't so bad.  

Orange at home... That's a bit peculiar.  

Maybe I am no judge... but no uniform in baseball is worse than the Reds 3rd jersey.  The thing looks like a softball uniform.  I expect the guys to walk out in those things some Sunday and, instead of names, to see them say "John's Bar" or "Chico's Bail Bonds" or whatever over the numbers on the back.

I can't wait until the Reds decide they need a new marketing push and trash the current abominations, in general.  They look like AL uniforms.  A team like the Reds, playing in the real league and everything, shouldn't have such an asinine font on their jerseys.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/11/2011 3:20:35 PM #

Those uniforms may keep Pujols and Fielder from signing with the Marlins.  

rpa
rpa
11/12/2011 12:00:22 AM #

We can all call Fielder The Great Pumpkin if he winds up wearing those.

Amy
Amy
11/12/2011 11:06:42 AM #

Mental image: priceless.

Amy
Amy
11/11/2011 4:14:48 PM #

Read this. That is all.

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.../index.htm

SlashX
SlashX
11/11/2011 5:58:57 PM #

Great story, thoroughly enjoyed it.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
11/11/2011 6:29:25 PM #

  Amy; this is a truly inspirational piece and I'm glad you brought it to us.It is so well written and tells an epic story in captivating style. I wonder how many stories like this have never been put to pen? It just shows how big a piece of Americana baseball really is. Cool touch that we saw it on Veterans Day and Swift's career was probably hampered by his service. Another reminder to give thanks to and for all of those who have sacrificed for the greater good of the greatest country. We can never re-pay the debt, but we can try.  

Amy
Amy
11/11/2011 7:36:16 PM #

Absolutely, to all of that.

rpa
rpa
11/11/2011 11:55:48 PM #

That's a really beautiful story.  Thanks for putting it up here.

River Otter
River Otter
11/13/2011 7:57:25 PM #

Agreed.  Terrific story!

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/11/2011 6:04:27 PM #

Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Sources: #Marlins have made substantial offers to both Reyes and Pujols. #STLCards #Mets #mlb

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/11/2011 6:41:16 PM #

It's funny to see Papelbon's contract being panned because 'four year deals for relievers don't work out.'

You know what? Cordero's did. For all our pissing and moaning, that guy gave us 4 solid, All-Star level seasons. Can't complain there.

(note: I'm really, REALLY hoping his next contract is with another team. But still).

rpa
rpa
11/11/2011 11:41:59 PM #

Closers are overpaid.  Period.

genewv
genewv
11/12/2011 8:45:47 AM #

I generally agree, unless they are of the super-elite, of which there are only 1 or 2 around at a time. That said, nothing is more deflating to a team's psyche than to lead going into the 9th, then blow the game. It can cause more losses to happen. So, closers may be overpaid, but one has to weigh what not having a decent one might cause?

However, I still agree with you.

rpa
rpa
11/12/2011 1:20:09 PM #

OK, Mariano Rivera might not have been overpaid.   I am not even certain that there are one or two of him at a time though.  Maybe one or two every century.

DocProc
DocProc
11/12/2011 8:55:37 AM #

I'm with RPA.  Most overrated job in baseball.  One inning.  Get three outs without allowing a run to score.  

Amy
Amy
11/11/2011 7:40:02 PM #

Timmy, I just saw your comment up higher in the thread. Both groups are considered more indie than country, so you can tell your wife that--maybe she'll go along. I'd recommend going, if you can at all manage it.

Take her for dessert at Intermezzo afterward. I'd go see the crappiest music ever for dessert at Intermezzo.

Amy
Amy
11/11/2011 8:07:21 PM #

Cafe Intermezzo, sorry, it's been too long since I lived there Smile

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
11/11/2011 10:39:03 PM #

Thinking over the possibilities of Stinky and Reyes going to Miami and Joey the Bat leaving the 'nati, I might have to become a Marlins fan. After all, that's the closest team to me. I can't stand the idea that Joey will most likely experience his most productive years in some other uniform. Just makes me sick to think about it. Having been a Reds fan since the 60s, it would be a traumatic thing to change allegience, but if the time has come when Cincy cannot hold on to someone of Votto's abilities, it might be time for me to move on. Hey Walt, don't let this happen!

rpa
rpa
11/11/2011 11:41:10 PM #

The Marlins have proven that, in a sense, this model works... suck for 10 years but keep developing young players, then spend a TON of money of a couple of years, get to the series, then go back to sucking once you have to tear it all down.

it's also one of the reasons they don't draw well.  I doubt the new stadium does much for them long term, but in the short term they can try to be the Heat for a year or two in the new digs, maybe they actually manage to build something sustainable.  It's not the worst way to do things, from a business perspective... but from a baseball perspective it just stinks.

Amy
Amy
11/11/2011 10:47:01 PM #

Ramos is safe:

http://www.vivacolorado.com/noticias/ci_19317517

rpa
rpa
11/11/2011 11:38:49 PM #

Yep.  Just heard about this.  happy it worked out.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
11/12/2011 12:36:55 AM #

espn.go.com/.../reds-should-hold-on-to-joey-votto

Amy
Amy
11/12/2011 11:06:03 AM #

A bird in the hand, eh?

I keep Votto as long as we possibly can. On the rare occasion I get to go to a game, I may be disappointed in the starting pitcher (seriously, why is it always Homer?), I may be disappointed in many things, but I know that Votto will be awesome. It's never a bad thing to watch him at the plate. So, yeah.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
11/12/2011 12:39:11 AM #

NEW YORK -- The proposed sale of the Houston Astros from Drayton McLane to Jim Crane is on the agenda for approval when baseball owners meet next week, The Associated Press has learned.

Two people familiar with the negotiations say McLane, Crane and Major League Baseball have reached an understanding on how a possible shift of the franchise to the American League in 2013 would take place. The people spoke on condition of anonymity because MLB had made no announcements.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/12/2011 1:28:22 PM #

Concerning the Marlins who have extended contract offers to Reyes, Pujols and Buehrle:   Team officials have stated they  don't expect to get all 3 and they don't believe their offer to Pujols is high enough.  

The timing also seems suspect to me, introduce the new uniforms, the new stadium and then make these three contract offers.  I would not be surprised if some of it isn't just a ploy to stir up some additional season ticket sales.  They may have legitimate interest in signing Reyes and perhaps even Buehrle but I have to feel the whole Pujols contract offer is a ruse to help sell the team to their fanbase.  I mean hey, they tried right.  But the best player in baseball just wanted more money than he is worth.  Not to mention they get to stir the media attention by giving the appearance they are "in the running" for Albert.  

If so I have to applaud their efforts.  Perhaps the Reds should make some low-ball offers to top free agents to help convince us and others in Redsland that they are committed to winning in 2012.  

DocProc
DocProc
11/12/2011 1:31:21 PM #

Actually, I don't think that's a bad idea at all.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/12/2011 3:54:43 PM #

I don't think this is true at all. Albert isn't going to waste his time.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/12/2011 1:29:56 PM #

Amy - excellent story I enjoyed it immensely.  

ORF - I need to think on the GM question more and will post my thoughts later.  Thanks for the new starter and for getting us all thinking from a different perspective on the moves this off-season.

ashlandateam
ashlandateam
11/12/2011 4:11:44 PM #

BOILER UP!!!!!

We're one win away from going to the Papa John's Motor City Big O Tires Bowl!

River Otter
River Otter
11/13/2011 7:31:41 PM #

You may lock it up next Saturday.  Iowa has been terrible on the road this year.  Just ask the Gophers.

Amy
Amy
11/12/2011 5:54:41 PM #

This one's probably worth more than a thousand words:

hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/.../picture-of-the-day-wilson-ramos-hugs-mom

River Otter
River Otter
11/13/2011 7:32:11 PM #

It was good to see him reunited with his family.  I was worried that wasn't going to end well for him.

genewv
genewv
11/12/2011 8:08:00 PM #

Soccer,

Thought about you today as the football game was progressing. Really tough losing Collandros that way. I truly hope he is not seriously injured. Any further word on him?

I am sure we don't beat you with him healthy, but, the FB gods tend to be much more cruel than the baseball gods as a rule--today being no exception.

Did you get to attend the game? Just wondering.

Later

genewv
genewv
11/12/2011 9:11:30 PM #

Uh, Collaros. Sorry about that Soccer.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
11/12/2011 10:44:32 PM #

Gene - I got photo mail from my daughter from the game. Sounds like 20 or 30 members of my family were in attendance. They all went home dissappointed. Oh well, football fans in Cincinnati are used to that. I'd be fine with that if the daggone professional baseball team would get back to the WS once in a while.
  Was up at Niagara falls today. The incredible, natural power there has a way of trivializing all your cares and worries. Think I might come here a couple times per baseball season.
             Dawginrochester

genewv
genewv
11/13/2011 8:35:24 PM #

Dawg,

Sorry for your family folks--but, as you said, Cincy, and, might I add, WVU folks, are used to the pain.

Niagra Falls is special. I sometimes go by when we gor to Canada, especially if I am with someone that has not seen them.

Stay safe.

Amy
Amy
11/13/2011 10:48:14 AM #

www.nytimes.com/.../...pp-hal-morris-weddings.html

Chris Sabo's Goggles posted that this morning--thought I'd share.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
11/13/2011 10:51:12 AM #

Amy,

Fantastic ending to that piece.

Amy
Amy
11/13/2011 11:15:52 AM #

The Hal Morris one? I thought that was a bit odd--is it normal to announce how someone's first marriage ended in the coverage of his second??

River Otter
River Otter
11/13/2011 7:29:52 PM #

A very uplifting way to end the announcement

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
11/13/2011 11:29:02 AM #

Exactly...that is a very odd announcement

Amy
Amy
11/13/2011 1:09:27 PM #

At least they didn't put the Vegas odds for the success of the new one?

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/13/2011 6:25:47 PM #

Mike Matheny is new manager of the Cardinals. And if the rumors are true that means sayonara Albert.

rpa
rpa
11/13/2011 9:02:39 PM #

Perhaps next year instead of calling him Price Albert, he'll go to Miami and become Le Grand Prince d'Orange.

stlredsfan
stlredsfan
11/14/2011 9:54:18 AM #

By all accounts Matheny is a likeable guy, but here's to hoping he turns into a shrinking violet and absolutely wilts under the pressure of succeeding Larussa and managing the hideous birds on the bat logo.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
11/13/2011 6:34:30 PM #

cant post in FF. Says waiting for Gravitar????

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
11/13/2011 7:41:25 PM #

I hope we don't have that gravetar issue again.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
11/13/2011 7:42:14 PM #

Anybody - What is Cincy TV saying about Green's knee?

rpa
rpa
11/13/2011 8:59:11 PM #

Hyperextended.   But no prognosis, really.  Green thinks it's no big deal.

The bad news seems to be Hall - they're saying torn achilles, done for the year.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
11/13/2011 9:22:56 PM #

That's probably worse news. He may be their MVP.
   Thanks
                

Dawginrochester

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/13/2011 9:24:29 PM #

Champ, try upgrading the FF 8.0 and restarting your browser to see if that fixes the issue for you.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/13/2011 9:25:05 PM #

Just saying because my FF auto updated and when it restarted the Gravitar issue disappeared.  

SlashX
SlashX
11/14/2011 8:23:22 AM #

From MLB Traderumors:

The Jays need an everyday second baseman, which leads Elliot to speculate on Brandon Phillips.

Amy
Amy
11/14/2011 1:39:15 PM #

Awesome little post about the birth of a rumor.

angels.ocregister.com/.../

btalbert25
btalbert25
11/14/2011 1:57:50 PM #

The more I think about it, the more I would also love to see the Reds do everything possible to keep Votto.  Even if that means paying him more than they can afford.  I think just having a guy like Votto adds value to the organization.  2 more seasons like the one he just had, and the guy is going to be nationally known.  He's going to be a player people want to come watch.  He's going to be a perennial all star and candidate for MVP. He's going to keep the Reds on the map.  They probably aren't going to keep Phillips around long term and he's the only other guy the Reds have that meet that criteria, other than Possibly Chapman.  

The Reds have been missing a guy like that for, well really a long time.  Larkin may have been that guy, Griffey certainly was early on, but as injuries set in year after year, he lost a lot of that luster.  Perhaps, Votto could be that guy.  The guy that people in Nebraska, New York, Arizona etc have his jersey and like to see succeed. When I was in Texas for the World Series in 2010, Joey was at the game accepting the Hank Aaron award.  Random people at the stadium saw my reds gear and said man that Votto is one heck of a player.  When I was in Sedona, AZ this summer a lady and her husband were at the pool.  Her husband said I love the Reds, and Votto is my favorite player.  Sure these are just a couple of chance encounters, but they also happened to be the last 2 times I was more than 500 miles from Cincinnati and people know and love this guy. A couple of more years of this level of play and Votto is going to be the super star the Reds haven't had for a long time.  I don't know, I think that draws a lot of revenue to a team that maybe isn't considered when we start talking about contacts.  

I have a feeling, attendance with Votto on the team for the next 2 seasons would have to be greater than this team without Votto.  Even if he's traded for a quality pitcher, season ticket sales are going to drop and people are going to say here we go again, the Reds are giving up and trading away their good players.  I could be wrong, but I think this franchise loses a lot financially without Votto on the team.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/14/2011 2:23:21 PM #

bta - I could not agree with you more.  

I think the Reds could lock him up for 5-7 yrs and keep him for 4 yrs minimum of that contract and still be able to move him if the money isn't there to allow them to keep him through the end of the contract.  That's at least 4 more years.  

The trouble for a small market team like the Reds is taking that chance that he declines and isn't worth the money in 5 yrs.  Then the Reds move him and eat a lot of the contract.  Given his age, durability and numbers so far I think that's a risk the Reds can take.  

genewv
genewv
11/14/2011 2:28:04 PM #

While i don't look for the reds to keep Votto beyond his current contract, i certainly would not vote against keeping him longer, if they can somehow work it out contractually--still find a way to stay competitive. Not a easy chore.

genewv
genewv
11/14/2011 2:29:28 PM #

What Red's fan cannot love Joey Votto?

He would certainly bring in at least a portion of that contract--if it is not humungus.

genewv
genewv
11/14/2011 2:30:36 PM #

By humungus, of course, I mean worth eleventy gazillion.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/14/2011 2:33:48 PM #

I see no reason why Votto would sign an extension now.  He's in his prime, getting paid big bicks the next two years, and deferring his free agency longer would put him in a Pujols situation, where teams question whether they want to pay a guy for the downward slope of his career.  And since Lozano is Votto and Albert's agent, I'm pretty sure he knows this.  Get comfortable with the idea of Votto playing somewhere else, cause It's very, very likely

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/14/2011 2:51:10 PM #

Yup. Which is why all the 'you can't trade Votto' nonsense is just that - nonsense.

Win or lose, the Reds lose this guy in 2013. So you either go all in to win (my preference), trade Votto (I'm okay with it) or you waste your time (the most likely scenario by a large margin).

btalbert25
btalbert25
11/14/2011 3:27:44 PM #

I'm not saying don't trade Votto, I'm just saying if they can try to keep him around they should do it.  I'm resigned to the fact that he probably won't be a Red, just hate to see the one guy who can be a superstar on this team, perhaps the only one the last 25 or 30 years, go to the usual suspects and they enjoy the rest of his career.  Of course it wouldn't be the first time the Reds did this or the last I'm sure. I'd also hate to think they trade him now, prematurely in my opinion, and end up with a player or players that just aren't that good.  Then the guy goes to have an HOF career somewhere else and the Reds got nothing out of the deal. I guess what I'm saying is, trade him for known, proven, very good MLB commodities, not for a slew of maybe they'll be good prospects/young players.

I just think if you have a guy like that, he brings in a lot more revenue that people usually think about.  I'm not saying extend him for 7 years right now, he has as much as said he won't do that because he doesn't want to be stuck somewhere for 7 years.  I'm not sure his contract in free agency will be more than a 4 year deal, just him being the kind of guy he is.  

Jabberwocky
Jabberwocky
11/14/2011 3:14:49 PM #

RPA...I think Le Grande Prince D'Orange would be Prince Fielder's moniker.  especially in that uniform-it fits.

I was very disheartened when I saw what happened to Zachary Collaros.  Dude's a pit bull with a caffeine high.  UC will bounce back, though.  They have a "Next Man In" philosophy.

I really strongly detest the team that is from the confluence of the Allegheny and the Monongahela.  Especially the Bengals' ex-head coach.

On a good note, it looks like our dog is out of the woods as far as cancer goes.  He's starting to get his puppy eyes back and he gets a little fiesty every now and then-just a little more energetic every day.  That and his hair thickening up.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/14/2011 4:11:41 PM #

This is, far and away, the best article I've read about the Penn State garbage. www.grantland.com/.../the-brutal-truth-penn-state

bjsReds1
bjsReds1
11/14/2011 4:11:59 PM #

I'm certainly not against keeping Votto, but there's no way I'm for the Reds breaking the budget for him.  I want the Reds to win.  If they win, attendance will come.  If you pay a superstar just for attendance, it's likely the rest of the team will stink and the only reason fans will come is for the star.

Baseball takes a full 25 guys to win.  The Rangers could have kept some of their so called superstars a few years back.  Instead they got quality and quantity in return and are now in the middle of a multi year run as one of the best teams in baseball.  

If the Reds, as a small market team, can afford Votto and also can afford to put quality players around him, whether that is youth or not, then great.  Go for it.  But don't re-sign Votto and then have it where you are signing Johnny Gomes and Fred Lewis to play LF and Dontrelle Willis to pitch in the rotation.  If you resign Votto, spend the extra money to put some pieces around him.  Or do it through trades or whatever.  Just don't give us Votto and nothing us else.  It won't win games and is what I'm afraid what will end up happening.

Statmom
Statmom
11/14/2011 6:33:09 PM #



I agree.  I hope they learn from recent history.  Remember what happened when they signed Ken Griffey, Jr.  No further money was spent to put quality players around him and the Reds were miserable.

Mary
Mary
11/14/2011 11:38:37 PM #

True, but I wonder if Bob C is as tight with his money as Lindner was--I think he definitely wants to win more than his predecessor,so I'm not sure that what happened with KGJ is what would happen with a long term Votto contract

bjsReds1
bjsReds1
11/14/2011 4:17:46 PM #

I want to see talent and players that compliment each other on the field, in the batting order, and in the rotation and bullpen.  I'm tired of seeing the Reds settle for one or the other type players that really aren't good at anything - like Johnny Gomes.  Sure you can't always have 5 tool guys everywhere.  There is a give and take, but have guys compliment each other.  The Reds are a team with a bunch of guys with the same strengths and weaknesses.  They need to mix it up a little.  If trading Votto is the best way to do that, it makes the Reds a better team.  Lastly, the Reds have been better over the past 20 years when they didn't have what anyone would consider a true superstar at the beginning of the season.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/14/2011 7:06:13 PM #

Thanks for the link Ash, sometimes you need to hear someone say it how it is.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
11/14/2011 7:27:17 PM #

I'm firmly entrenched in the "not trading Votto" camp, unless you are getting equal, proven talent in return. The type of talent that has been productive in the past and is a high percentage risk to continue to produce. And you know what that means? The same kind of price tag that comes with Votto. I can visualize a scenario where the team makes a deal that ranks in the top 10 worst in history. That is the risk when you consider moving a guy like Joey. They could easily end up less competitive, less attractive to the fans, and less valuable as an organization. This type situation has a high risk of being the worse trade since Frank Robinson.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
11/14/2011 7:35:55 PM #

I also agree with bjs that good teams have a mix match of talents and skills. Any guy with Joey's skills should be your building block. If you need to keep salary low, do so with the other pieces of the puzzle. Every good team needs a Stinky, Wright, Fielder, Hamilton, A-Rod, ED44, Bonds, MvGuire, etc. To get a guy like that you need to pay. Would 2 Jay Bruce's make up for one Votto? Not likely. Thing is, it would eventually cost more.


Dawginbuffalo

Amy
Amy
11/14/2011 11:16:01 PM #

I'm enjoying the name/location changes. Are you enjoying scenic New York state?

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
11/15/2011 10:34:45 AM #

After 6 weeks on the road I doubt I could enjoy anything as much as the face of my wife and the companionship of my trusty dog. Been unseasonably nice up here, though. Highs in the 60s and lows in the 40s or so. It's mostly country so very scenic. 2 Great Lakes, the Erie Canal, Niagara Falls, woods and deer everywhere you look. Trainees are towing the line and the local hub is off to a pretty good start. Friday night can't get here soon enough.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/14/2011 10:09:36 PM #

Gene, I've been away from here for a couple of days. Good game Saturday. The football gods certainly didn't side with the Bearcats. Then again you make your own breaks. Don't miss a field goal early in the game and the last one you miss isn't needed. It's a real bad break losing Collaros. Hopefully Munchie can hold down the fort till the end of the season. The local HS team won their playoff game and goes to the regional final on Friday against the #1 team in the state in D2. Other than that, everything football related sucked. We've got friends that are from,as they say, West By God Virginia. They are also Steelers fans. They kind of rubbed it in a bit, but not too bad.

genewv
genewv
11/15/2011 10:05:01 AM #

Glad you had a safe trip.

Also glad your local high school team won. One of my former BB players, who has become a very successful high school FB coach here, got beat last week, so that is over. My former PG just took over a local college job here, got beat in OT in his first game, so the surprise WVU win was somewhat of a weekend saver for me.

I don't watch much pro FB at all ( high school, college guy, except for the Reds ), but my daughter is a big Steeler fan, so, I am a low level Steeler fan myself--when I actually watch a game, which is seldom.

Wish you luck this week on the high school front--sounds like a big order. Sorry about Collaros, really am.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
11/14/2011 10:39:07 PM #

testing

Amy
Amy
11/14/2011 11:30:26 PM #

Why do I have to call someone to find out about the mini ticket plans for spring training? Why on EARTH can't you just put that information on the website. That's what teh intarwebs are FOR, people. Gah.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
11/15/2011 7:28:33 AM #

I may be targeting that 3/14 SS set and then the march 16th game and then come home Sat Morning.

I hope they are on the road on the road the 17th and not off

DocProc
DocProc
11/15/2011 7:42:47 AM #

Probably going to see the March 9 and 10 games in Scottsdale (Giants) and Phoenix (Athletics).  Might only see morning workouts at Goodyear this year.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
11/15/2011 8:51:56 AM #

you and that Scottsdale thing...

I can fly in early on the 14th see both games then they play LAD away(which I haven't seen yet then the 16th is home at 7:05. Thats a good golf day or trip to the canyon.

DocProc
DocProc
11/15/2011 8:56:38 AM #

Yep--we decided last year that Scottsdale easily trumps Goodyear--both the city and the stadium.

However, the idea of catching two games in one day is WAY cool.  Unfortunately, my school is not on Spring Break on that date...

bjsReds1
bjsReds1
11/15/2011 11:24:28 AM #

mlbtraderumors has a post that says the Rays are targeting 1B and DH but also want to hold onto their pitching depth.  It also says they would give up their pitching depth if Joey Votto came available.  Like most everyone else, I'd love nothing more than to see Votto stick around for a long time in Cincinnati.  He is the guy you build the future around.  

However, pitching more than anything else, especially in GABP, wins championships.  Because of GABP, we have to have really good pitching.  Let's say the Reds can get James Shields, either Hellickson or Matt Moore, and a prospect for Votto.  As much as I love Votto, I just don't see how you don't do that trade.  Instantly, the Reds would have two top of the rotation guys in Cueto and Shields, maybe the best young starter in baseball in Hellickson or Moore, a veteran #4 with something to prove in Arroyo, and competition between Wood and Bailey for #5.  That rotation is better than any other in the division.

Then you move Alonso to first, let Stubbs and Heisey compete for CF, and then put out an incredibly attractive offer to Michael Cuddyer or trade Stubbs for a LF bat.  I love Joey, but that team would be better and could compete for championships better than the one with him on it because of the pitching.

btalbert25
btalbert25
11/15/2011 11:30:57 AM #

I'm thinking when they say they'd give up some of their pitching depth, they mean they'd give up 1 of their starters.  I'm not sure they'd give up that much for Votto.  That's the problem I have with trading Votto. Who is going to give the Reds a deal that will actually benefit the Reds?  Their offer may just be Shields for Votto, which I absolutely don't do.  I'm not so sure Shields is the sure fire number 1 everyone else does either, but that's a debate for a different day I guess.

If you could get the deal that you mention above, then I think that is a deal the Reds would jump on and rightfull so.  However, is that a deal that the Rays would be willing to pull the trigger on?  I'm not so sure.

DocProc
DocProc
11/15/2011 11:34:58 AM #

Um, I didn't see Chapman anywhere in that rotation, Beej.

Which is why I think we'll probably want and need to throw in a Bailey, Volquez, or Wood in any trade for a starting pitcher--because the other team will want a replacement, and we'll need the space.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/15/2011 2:31:18 PM #

Or you can turn around and trade Bailey for a left fielder.

Jabberwocky
Jabberwocky
11/15/2011 11:56:02 AM #

Is Votto the only 1B on this team?  Why not Alonso?  Granted, he won't get Shields but what about 2 or 3 VERY High Level starting prospects?  At least one should be better than our 4th & 5th.

Yes, the Reds can keep Alonso longer and Votto gives the team more leverage (the Votto-Boom Affect).  Now we get into what-if scenarios.  What if the prospects vault the Reds into the playoffs, which helps the Reds payroll and keeps Votto here?

Everyone seems to think Votto is gone when his contract is up.  What if he's not?  It is his decision, but what if he's on a winner here?  Wouldn't that factor into the decision-making process?

Sorry...I get a little "excited" about all these scenarios.  Do the Reds need to get better personnel in certain areas?  Yes.  Do they need to get rid of the MVP to get it?  I doubt it.  It's a beautiful carrot to dangle, but that would be a last resort, not the first in my book.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/15/2011 12:03:28 PM #

Doc - I don't see Chapman in the Reds rotation in 2012.  The Reds pissed away 2011 as far as his development imo.  Wasted a year.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/15/2011 12:23:17 PM #

How about this:

The Marlins appear to be serious about getting Reyes.  Hanley Ramirez doesn't want to move from SS - he had a miserable 2011 compared to his career stats.  He also battled with a shoulder injury in 2011 but will begin baseball activities the first of the year.  

The Marlins want Albert (so they say) but likely can't afford him.  So what about a deal with Miami that involved Hanley and money to the Reds for Alonso.  Yep straight up, they dump some salary and a guy who has soured some in Miami and will be playing out of position.  There could also be some minor players involved with this deal but those as the only two primaries.  Alonso is from Miami of course.  There is risk both ways but the Marlins get a guy under team control and dump salary they can spend elsewhere.

Not saying I'd necessarily make this trade. I like Alonso, I'd like to see what he can do for 150 games a season.  I also am scared of Hanley a little but I do suspect he'll bounce back.  The money owed to him is a big issue for the Reds.  So tough call.  I do have to wonder if the Marlins don't plan on trying to move Ramirez given some of their comments and activity recently.  

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/15/2011 2:28:32 PM #

You do that deal in a heartbeat if you can. Then, you trade Cozart to a team like Atlanta who's looking for a shortstop for a pitcher.

Like I said below, though, Hanley's moving to third and they're keeping him.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/15/2011 12:26:57 PM #

Jabberwocky - I have to agree on the Votto front.  I don't trade him, don't offer to trade him and certainly don't shop him. If someone comes to me and makes me an offer that I can't refuse well then I have to seriously consider it.  

But I think the writing is on the wall.  Unless Votto signs a short extension this off-season or during 2012 he will likely hit free agency after 2013 and he has made comments suggesting he'll get what his value demands.  I think most assume the Reds will not be the top bidder if that happens, an assumption I have to agree with.  

btalbert25
btalbert25
11/15/2011 12:35:46 PM #

I'll absolutely take Hanley Ramirez and I said so a couple of years ago.  The guy is a phenominal talent.  I know he has attitude issues, but this team with a healthy Rolen and possible other strong veteran presence will be able to change that attitude quickly.  Florida had a lot of problems, no leadership, and poor management.  No one demanded Ramirez stay in line.  This guy being healthy with Phillips at 2nd, we'll have a great double play combination.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/15/2011 12:38:49 PM #

fandemad?

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/15/2011 2:25:33 PM #

Two things on the trade rumors:

- Hanley Ramirez has already agreed to move to third. In fact, from what I've read, he's the one who went to the Marlins and told them to get Reyes, because they're apparently pretty close. I don't think Miami is trading him.

- I can only assume Tampa Bay isn't willing to trade two of Shields/Moore/Hellickson for Votto, because if the Reds could get two of those guys (and add, oh, 10 wins to the team, even WITH the loss of Votto) and choose not to for some convoluted reason, my head will explode.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/15/2011 2:48:06 PM #

Anyone who gives this guy $100 mil deserves what they get. At this point, it's simple insanity to expect these guys to come over and be aces.

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.../index.html

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/15/2011 3:12:17 PM #

Ash - I guess I read some bad info on Hanley not wanting to move.  Of course the article was talking about him moving to CF and he mentioned it never being discussed with him and basically said he wasn't moving.  So I guess I read too much into that one article and should have dug for more info and turned up the third base move discussions.  

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/15/2011 3:29:53 PM #

Or I did. Who knows - it's Hanley Ramirez. He may have changed his mind for all we know.

bjsReds1
bjsReds1
11/15/2011 4:28:40 PM #

I don't want Hanley Ramirez unless Walt hires Bobby Cox as his manager.  Hanley Ramirez would walk all over Dusty Baker and Dusty being the players manager that he is would let him.

This time of year, the Reds aren't getting any great deals in a trade unless it's a salary dump.  So if they want some players that are going to really make an impact now, they're going to have to give up quality.  Sure I'm not actively seeking to trade Votto, but I'd sure as heck listen to Tampa more than anyone if they called because they have lots of exactly what the Reds need - pitching.

Amy
Amy
11/15/2011 5:17:12 PM #

Anybody going to Redsfest? I always *want* to go but never do, because I host a Christmas party that Sunday afternoon and I'm too busy getting ready for it every year. Maybe I'll be organized this year???

Statmom
Statmom
11/15/2011 6:09:18 PM #



Statdaughter goes to college in Cincinnati now, so we are thinking of driving down from Columbus, picking her up and attending on Friday night or Saturday.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/16/2011 8:24:09 AM #

The Little Guy and I go on Friday night every year. Statmom, I'll send those visual acuity drills tomorrow. It's been crazy around here recently. Sorry!

Amy
Amy
11/15/2011 9:01:34 PM #

Hey, if anyone gets an email from my old hotmail addy, please disregard. Someone took advantage of its inactivity and hacked me. Should be all taken care of now. Sorry!

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/16/2011 8:57:36 AM #

In case someone didn't see this late yesterday.  From mlbtraderumors.com

"Reds GM Walt Jocketty says the team will hold on to the first baseman, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com (via Twitter). Jocketty indicated that the Reds will try to lock Votto up to a long-term deal within the next year."

Also...

"The Reds are among the teams who have contacted the Braves to inquire on Jair Jurrjens."

DocProc
DocProc
11/16/2011 8:59:23 AM #

Allow me to say again that I would be THRILLED to get Jurrjens and would be willing to see the Reds give up several of their bargaining chips to get him.

bjsReds1
bjsReds1
11/16/2011 9:07:39 AM #

Agreed, other than the fact he's a Boras guy.  I'd love to see a package centered around Drew Stubbs.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/16/2011 9:00:12 AM #

Jon Heyman is tweeting from the GM meetings and here is his twitter link:

http://twitter.com/#!/SI_JonHeyman

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/16/2011 9:07:50 AM #

I'm with you Doc.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/16/2011 9:32:50 AM #

www.redreporter.com/.../trade-rumors-for-realsies-this-time-jair-jurrjens-jumping-to

Red Reporter isn't sold, and if he's had a drop in velocity, then I'm not either.  I think we saw what the loss of even a few mph on the gun did to guys like Arroyo and Jimenez.

River Otter
River Otter
11/16/2011 10:30:29 AM #

Trades with the Braves never seem to go well for the other team.  I'm not opposed to trading for him, but the Braves are insane if they're looking for the equivalent of what the Brewers gave up for Greinke.

DocProc
DocProc
11/16/2011 10:40:54 AM #

How about Bailey and Stubbs for Jurrjens?

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/16/2011 10:53:05 AM #

Reported that Marlins offer to Pujols will llikely be in the 9 year, 220 million dollar range, or about 20-30 million more than the Cardinals offer.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/16/2011 11:06:07 AM #

It blows me away how a fanbase who watched Volquez, Bailey, Arroyo, Wood and Willis last year can 'not be sold' on a 25 year old All-Star with a career ERA of 3.40 coming off a year where it was 2.96. I mean... really?

And you know what Milwaukee gave up for Greinke? A no hit, all field shortstop; an enigmatic center fielder; a hard throwing but wild reliever; and an A ball pitcher. And to get that wonderful package, they also had to throw in a starting shortstop for the Brewers.

That makes the Reds' equivalent look like this:

ATL gets:
CF Drew Stubbs
SS Paul Janish
RHP Nick Masset
*A ball pitcher

CIN gets:
RHP Jair Jurjjens
OF Matt Diaz

THAT, friends, is a recreation of the MIL-KC deal. That's probably not what Atlanta is thinking (and there'd be no reason to take back another guy like Milwaukee did), but Drew Stubbs is already better than anyone Milwaukee gave up. He and a couple others would be plenty to get the deal done, and the Reds absolutely, positively should.
ATL gets:

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/16/2011 12:02:26 PM #

The brewers gave up Lorenzo cain, who's going to be twice the player that Stubbs is or will ever be, has six years of team control, three or which will be at the major league minimum.  Trading stubbs because he's a CF does not make the trade equal with the Grienke deal.

What's the deal with wanting Jurrgens anyway.  I thought the Reds needed a front of the rotation guy?  JJ is far from that.

If you want to trade away prospects and young talent, get something worthwhile, not a #2-3 starter with an injury history

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/16/2011 1:58:44 PM #

There's absolutely nothing in the stats - minor league or major league - that say Cain is better than Stubbs. Stubbs was a first round pick/top prospect too, and he's been worth 6 wins the last two years.

I get the contract stuff is different, but I find it hard to believe that Cain is 'going to be twice the player Stubbs is or ever will be.'

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/16/2011 2:14:07 PM #

Cain OPS was .877 last year in AAA.  Stubbs OPS was .713 his full season in AAA.  Cain hits for a better average and stikes out better than half as much as Stubbs.  And his defense is CF is considered plus, same as Stubbs.  

When Stubbs can OPS .686 and k 205 times (I thought about saying swing and miss 205 times, but we all know how often Stubbs actually swings at strike 3)and still be a 3WAR player, that tells me that a)CF is a cesspool of dudes that can't hit and b) something's funny with the way WAR is calculated.  And when I notice that Jonny Gomes was a 0.7 WAR player despite being one of the worst players in baseball last year, I'm inclined to believe b)

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/16/2011 11:20:49 AM #

Grizz - I believe the state income taxes would allow the Marlins to match any offer St Louis makes and Pujols would pocket more money.  

I have seen where it's rumored Miami made a 9 yr offer but have not seen the amount reported yet.  I also have seen where it's rumored the WLB's offer was actually slightly less than $200MM last year.  

Amy
Amy
11/16/2011 11:36:24 AM #

A 9-year contract is insanity. The guy is *at least* 31 years old. I mean, I know he'll get it, but I'm just sayin'.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/16/2011 12:01:03 PM #

I'm with Ash on the Jurrjens

Amy - Yes 9 yrs is crazy.  I honestly feel that Albert has already started his decline, I seriously question whether he's worth the money in 5 yrs much less 9.  

DocProc
DocProc
11/16/2011 1:26:34 PM #

25 years old, 41-37 MLB record, 3.83 ERA, 1.29 WHIP

25 years old, 50-33 MLB record, 3.40 ERA, 1.28 WHIP

The first is Cueto; the second is Jurrjens.  Explain to me why we wouldn't want a pitcher who is a (small) uptick on our best starter?

btalbert25
btalbert25
11/16/2011 1:40:06 PM #

To me it's a no brainer, you'd then have 2 very young guys, who are still not quite at their peak.  If both improved again next season that would be a nasty 2 headed monster at the top of the rotation.

ALso, I'm extremely happy to see that the Reds are working on trying to extend Votto.  Perhaps Votto is willing to stick around here a while afterall?  Hopefully so.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/16/2011 1:49:17 PM #

Because he has missed significant time the last two years with injury, to the tune of throwing only 268 innings in 2010-2011

Because Cueto has been trending toward getting better every year since coming in the league, while JJ is trending in the opposite direction

Because while the Atlanta organization has alot of young talent, none of it has been beating the door down to get into the bigs, so why is a team that should have made the playoffs last season trading away a foundation of their rotation after coming off an injury?

I don't trust the braves, and I don't think JJ is the top of the rotation guy the Reds need.  Is he better than what we have?  Sure he is.  But is he the ace that most people think the Reds need to be contenders with a revamped MIL rotation and a Cards rotation that was better than the Reds despite missing their best pitcher for the WHOLE season?  Not for my money  

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/16/2011 1:44:41 PM #

I think the WLB's will be a worse team without Pujols next year if they don't resign him, I think they'll be worse off long term if they do sign him.  Looks like a win win for Reds fans.  

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/16/2011 1:56:50 PM #

I'm with Doc - I don't understand the hesitancy on JJ. Like he pointed out, he's basically Cueto. We all seem to be fans of him, even though he didn't pitch enough innings last year to qualify for the ERA title either.

And Timmy, how has JJ been trending backwards? 2011 was his best year.

Atlanta used to have a reputation for never losing a trade. The last few years (back to, oh, 2008 or so), though, it's tough to find one they've won.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/16/2011 2:03:54 PM #

I understand Timmy's hesitancy to make a move for JJ.  I think for these reasons you don't give up a LOT for him but it's going to take a little or you'll never get a deal done.  

I think there's a lot of upside to a guy like this and he's under team control until 2014.  Heck you might even be able to sign him for 4-yrs if you want to take that risk.  But at least if you trade for a guy like this with a lot of upside you aren't going to get stuck with him long term if he doesn't work out.  Unlike Pujols and his likely 9 yr contract.  I say for a guy who is arb eligible I take the chance on him if the asking price isn't too steep.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/16/2011 2:06:37 PM #

To back up what Grizz stated earlier about the Pujols rumors, I have also heard now that the Marlins offer is rumored to be 9 yrs $225MM.  Apparently the WLB's are back in talks with his agent now.  Oh and Prince Fielder wants 8 yrs and $200MM.  Buyer beware on him too I say.

bjsReds1
bjsReds1
11/16/2011 2:06:58 PM #

I certainly think a trade for Jurrjens would have to include a contingency on an MRI or two.  If the Reds get him, though, it would probably be the best trade they could manage in that I bet they wouldn't have to give up Alonso.

I'd give up Stubbs for any good piece the Reds need right now - bullpen, SP, LF.  If he could bring back someone the caliber of JJ, I'd be doing dances around GABP.

River Otter
River Otter
11/16/2011 2:08:14 PM #

If you can get JJ for what Ash proposed, then sure.  However, I'm guessing that Atlanta will want a lot more than that.  I am concerned about giving up top prospects for a pitcher who's had some injuries the last couple of years and whose average fastball last year was below 90.  

River Otter
River Otter
11/16/2011 2:12:35 PM #

Grizz and RF - Wow, it just seems insane that the Marlins would make that offer to Pujols.  I suppose they want to make a big splash as they move into a new stadium, but I think they'll regret the half of that deal.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/16/2011 2:21:57 PM #

Otter - I have no idea what the Marlins are thinking if they are serious about the offers to Reyes and Pujols.  How they think the money will be there long-term is beyond me.  They team has never generated any ticket sales even when they have good years.  Perhaps they feel that this would cement the fan base in Miami but I don't know how you can bank on it happening.  I don't think anyone wants that Pujols contract in 5 yrs.  

btalbert25
btalbert25
11/16/2011 2:22:15 PM #

I think I'd rather have Jujens than Shields.  Everyone seems to be sold that he is going to be a number 1 if he pitched in another division besides the great AL East.  I'm impressed by Jurjens than Shields(who probably isn't getting traded anyway).

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/16/2011 2:23:43 PM #

Shields just finished 3rd in the Cy Young voting in the AL. He's a number 1 right now.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/16/2011 2:23:36 PM #

Of course perhaps they are only doing it to generate ticket sales now, perhaps they only offered Pujols around the same dollars that the WLB's did and don't think he'll accept their offer, and perhaps they leaked the rumors that they offered more than they actually did.  Who knows what's really going on in their front office.  But I will say this.  People are talking about the Marlins and not the Reds.  

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/16/2011 2:24:24 PM #

I think Shields may be the better pitcher but one thing is for sure - he's going to cost a LOT more to get.  For that reason JJ seems more likely to me.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/16/2011 3:46:25 PM #

Rumor has it now that the WLB's will be resigning Albert on Friday.  Cards are denying the rumor but the source is said to be credible.  Hmmmmm

DocProc
DocProc
11/16/2011 4:10:20 PM #

I know that one game does not equal a season (or a career), and that this game happened relatively early in 2011--but this is when I remember thinking "Wow, this dude can pitch."

mlb.sbnation.com/.../atlanta-braves-cincinnati-reds-score-news

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/16/2011 4:16:08 PM #

I was at that game, and JJ was fantastic.  But the Reds offense had the tendency to disappear for long stretches at a time all year last year, so one performance, at home, in front of a pretty full stadium (it was memorial weekend) doesn't convince me he's amazing.  I'm more concerned about him losing speed on his fastball.  When you fastball and offspeed stuff get closer together in terms of mph, bad things often follow

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/16/2011 5:29:40 PM #

And of course now the rumors are stating the Marlins offer to Pujols is less than $200MM also.  Can't say I'm surprised.  

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/16/2011 5:53:03 PM #

The rumor mill is fun. Also, Mozeliak denied they were anywhere close to a deal (as was reported on Twitter by a St. Louis writer)

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/16/2011 5:52:29 PM #

If this site is correct those of us in the Ohio Valley could be in for a harsh winter.

snowday.community.officelive.com/...rForecast.aspx

They also report that the Marlins' offer to Pujols was over $200MM so who knows.

Amy
Amy
11/16/2011 8:14:56 PM #

I don't want to look at that. I may just stay in Arizona till late May.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
11/16/2011 9:46:33 PM #

RO's florida office is always open

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/16/2011 10:45:25 PM #

Saw this on mlbtraderumors.com tonight.

The Reds "made good progress" with Brandon Phillips' agent today, though no long-term deal is imminent yet, tweets Jon Fay of the Cincinnati Enquirer.

bjsReds1
bjsReds1
11/17/2011 9:31:30 AM #

Did anyone see the insider stuff on ESPN about Cole Hamels being available?  That would be interesting, although I'm sure he's going to get tons of money after next season.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/17/2011 10:27:09 AM #

So word on the street today is that the Marlins offers to Reyes and Pujols were actually much lower than was originally leaked.  So yeah, once again I don't believe it was anything more than an effort to drive up ticket sales.  Perhaps they are serious about signing Reyes but people are stating that their offer to Pujols was well below the original WLB's offer at the beginning of last season.  That's obviously not going to get it done.  

Not saying it's not a bad strategy, I actually think it's pretty smart although a bit deceiving to the fan base.  

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/17/2011 10:35:26 AM #

Jocketty interview on mlb.com

mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=19997441

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/17/2011 10:39:49 AM #

Basically Jocketty states that for 2012 his focus is on finding an experienced starter to stabilize the rotation.  He also mentioned resigning Cordero or finding help for the back of the bullpen.  

bjsReds1
bjsReds1
11/17/2011 10:57:55 AM #

I think that sounds good depending on who they can get.  Experience is great, but if the guy isn't clearly better than Bailey or Wood, then I hope they don't waste their time.

I'd rather Cordero not be back.  That money would be better off in the bank and saved for the deadline or future years than to an overweight, aging closer with declining SO numbers.

DocProc
DocProc
11/17/2011 11:17:44 AM #

I am adamantly anti-Cordero, unless he wants to come back for under 4 mil a year, which he doesn't.

DocProc
DocProc
11/17/2011 11:19:10 AM #

I am generally against a long-term BP contract, unless he wants to come back for less than 8 mil a year, which he doesn't.

DocProc
DocProc
11/17/2011 11:22:55 AM #

In case you missed it, I'm against throwing long-term, high-salary contracts to aging players who were part of last year's losing team.  I want our big money to go to upgrades, not retreads.  I like BP, but not for the kind of contract he wants.  And I've never liked Cordero, as you probably know--but especially not now.

bjsReds1
bjsReds1
11/17/2011 12:12:25 PM #

Doc, I'd offer Cordero a one year deal worth about 3 million.  I would offer him no more than I would have paid David Weathers a few years back.  

If BP wants to play for the Reds, then he is going to have to accept what they can pay.  I'd offer BP a deal like Weeks, maybe a little bit more.  BP is a great defensive 2B, but in two years his range will not be as good.  While he and Weeks have different strengths at the plate, I think the argument can be made that Weeks is a better hitter.  The Braves were just dumb with Uggla.  No way he gets that from me and Utley is just silly.  Until last year, BP was basically a .270 hitter.

Jabberwocky
Jabberwocky
11/17/2011 12:36:01 PM #

Don Juan Francisco's home was robbed last night, according to 700 WLW.  Juan was not injured.

I hope they didn't steal his home runs for next year.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/17/2011 12:51:50 PM #

Astros will move to AL in 2013 - basically official now.  Also looks like the expanded playoffs (one additional wildcard team) is official as well - trying to get it worked into the 2012 season.  

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
11/17/2011 2:01:35 PM #

First of all- no way JJ is in the same league as JS; not yet. My solution? Trade for them, both. Anyone except Cueto, BP, Votto, Snacks, and Grandal is available, so long as the composition of the trade is equal in value for all parties. I can't think of anyone else who is truly irreplaceable when it comes to building a rotation that could rival the Philberts. I know- I know; it gonna happen. But if your going to dream.....

  Dawginnaples again.  

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
11/17/2011 2:03:02 PM #

Um... "it ain't going to happen" should appear in the post above. How we coming on that edit function for illiterates like me?

bjsReds1
bjsReds1
11/17/2011 3:05:27 PM #

"My guess is we’ll see an AL team in for Opening Day 2013."  That was at the end of Fay's post about the Astros moving to the AL.

Now, I'm not saying this won't happen, but why in the world would Fay speculate on this?  At least one team from each league will open the season with an interleague game, but to guess who at this point is just silly.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/17/2011 5:29:13 PM #

The Mets have made Daniel Murphy available. Anyone interested?

He's 26, under team control 3 more years, and has a 3 year slash line of .292/.343/.441 in a pitcher's park.

He sounds like a perfect candidate to get back for a Volquez or a Bailey; the Mets need pitching, and they could talk themselves into one of our back end guys being better in Citi Field than Cincy.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/17/2011 5:30:22 PM #

My bad - he's not a FA until 2016. That makes me want him even more. Plus, he can play third, first, or left. He's PERFECT for what we need, and we match up well with NY on a trade.

River Otter
River Otter
11/17/2011 5:33:53 PM #

In case any of you missed this, here's a pretty funny video of Ryan Theriot's defensive stylings from last year:  www.redreporter.com/.../this-is-just-fantastic

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/17/2011 5:59:15 PM #

That almost just makes me more upset they won the World Series with that guy.

Amy
Amy
11/17/2011 6:09:04 PM #

Who was the Reds player going into 2B? I couldn't tell, it went by too quickly. That is good stuff right there.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/17/2011 6:23:26 PM #

Stubbs.

Amy
Amy
11/17/2011 6:26:03 PM #

Well, no wonder he went by too quickly.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/17/2011 8:41:56 PM #

I know the game isn't easy, but for the life of me, I can't understand how you cannot make a routine throw. Except for the lack of range of motion in my shoulder and my elbow feeling like an alligator is biting it,and can't really get anything on the ball anymore, I could still make a routine throw accurately.I think.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/17/2011 5:57:07 PM #

Had this interesting exchange on twitter.  Surprised he admitted as much.

Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
Assuming that it gets done, the one-game playoff in the WC round was the right decision for MLB, for a whole bunch of reasons.

timothyjwyant Timothy Wyant
@
@Buster_ESPN If MLB=owners, then yea, it was the right decision. #moneytalks

Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
@
@timothyjwyant Yes. The whole industry is built to make money; the decisions are for money. It's a business.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/17/2011 5:59:04 PM #

I understand why the WC expansion was done, but after the great race we just had in the AL and NL by the Rays and Cards to get into the playoffs, the whole thing would have been totally different if the Cards and Rays were going to a one game playoff anyway.  Storylines play out much, much differently

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/17/2011 6:01:32 PM #

Yup. Carp doesn't pitch game 5 against the Phillies, and they're probably eliminated.

I love it for that reason. All disliking the Cards aside, it's simply not fair to have a team who finishes 6 games back in their division get a chance to get hot and be on level playing ground with division champs. I LOVE the idea of penalizing the teams that don't win over 162 games.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/17/2011 6:07:55 PM #

But that's just it.  If the Braves don't get all Payton Manning in Foxboro in January" at the end of the year, they win the Wild Card by 8 games, and still have to play the Cards in a one game playoff.  Punishing the Braves because they play in the same division as the NL version of the Yankees isn't exactly the pinnacle of fairness to me either.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/17/2011 6:25:59 PM #

But being the Phillies should mean something. Is it 'fair' to Atlanta? Who cares - they should have won more games.

Winning the division should have a stark advantage over not winning it, in my opinion. If it were me, I'd get rid of the WC altogether. But since that's not gonna happen, this seems like a fine second option.

(btw nice Peyton Manning reference.)

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/18/2011 1:35:32 PM #

Happy Friday everyone.  

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/18/2011 3:29:07 PM #

From Jamie Ramsey at Better Off Red:

"The Reds added to the 40-man roster IF Didi Gregorius, RHP Kyle Lotzkar, IF Donald Lutz, IF Henry Rodriguez, IF Neftali Soto and RHP Pedro Villarreal…the 40-man roster is at 40 players."

Not sure who is exposed for the Rule 5 draft now as a result.  I shall investigate and report back.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/18/2011 3:42:23 PM #

I understand every one of those choices except Villarreal.  Nothing in his numbers is exceptional.  Don't we have enough middle-of-the-road bullpen arms already?

And the 40-man roster is now full, so I would not expect any signings at least until the winter meetings are over in DEC (when the rule 5 draft is over and presumably, many rosters are topped off.  We shall see I guess

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/18/2011 3:38:18 PM #

This is a little older but thought I'd share since no-one else has mentioned it. Baseball America released the top 10 prospects for the Reds and here is the list:

1. Devin Mesoraco, c
2. Billy Hamilton, ss
3. Yonder Alonso, 1b/of
4. Yasmani Grandal, c
5. Zack Cozart, ss
6. Daniel Corcino, rhp
7. Robert Stephenson, rhp
8. DiDi Gregorius, ss
9. Todd Frazier, 3b/1b/of
10. Brad Boxberger, rhp

I'm not sure if it's good or bad that 4 of the top 10 will be playing for the Reds this season in all likelihood.  I can see both sides of that argument.  

What I find odd relates to the SS position.  We all feel that's a weak spot for the organization but 3 of the top 10 are shortstops.  Also, Billy Hamilton appears to be rated a bit too high in my opinion.  He's still young and trying to develop his hitting, until he proves he can hit the ball at AA I'm not going to allow myself to get that high on the kid.  I love his speed but it doesn't help the team from the plate to the dugout.  

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/18/2011 3:41:22 PM #

Jamie Ramsey also reported the following will be attending RedsFest this year:

    Yonder Alonso
    Zack Cozart
    Todd Frazier
    Jeremy Horst
    Devin Mesoraco
    Chris Valaika
    Tucker Barnhart
    Brad Boxberger
    Yasmani Grandal
    Billy Hamilton
    Drew Hayes
    Ryan LaMarre
    Josh Smith

DocProc
DocProc
11/18/2011 3:42:31 PM #

The guy I'm most excited about on that list?  Boxberger.  I think he's our closer of the future.  Hope that comes sooner, not later.





timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/18/2011 3:47:50 PM #

johnfayman John Fay
RT @symdev @johnfayman any surprises?//Bigger factor is who is exposed to Rule 5. I'm no expert on that.

The last games the Reds played was in SEPT and you can't figure out who's Rule5 eligible by now?  Fayman amazes me sometimes...

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/18/2011 3:55:35 PM #

BTW, I had not seen this previously but Baseball America announced their top 20 prospects from the 2011 International League and 4 Reds made the list.  #3 was Mesoraco, #11 Cozart, #13 Alonso and #20 Frazier.  

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/18/2011 4:00:58 PM #

Redreporter.com listed 9 Reds who were eligible for the Rule 5 draft.  Of them only 1 (Neftali Soto) was placed on the 40 man so it would appear that the remaining are elegible for the December 8th draft.  I'm sure there are other minor league lists that can be used to protect some of these guys, I'm uncertain of that process but I know the deadline to have all rosters set for the Rule 5 draft is tomorrow.  Here's the remaining list:

James Avery

Eric Campbell

Tom Cochran

Mike Costanzo

Jerry Gil

Bill Rhinehart

James Skelton

Travis Webb  

stlredsfan
stlredsfan
11/18/2011 7:10:46 PM #

Cody Puckett should be eligible, I believe.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/18/2011 4:47:22 PM #

Given that top 10 list, I'm not so sure trading Cozart isn't a good move. I'm pretty sure if he's the centerpiece, Atlanta would gladly move JJ. And if we signed a guy like, oh, Alex Gonzalez or Rafael Furcal for the next season or two, we'd be ok there and still have plenty of wiggle room for more moves. Plus, we won with Orlando Cabrera - we could find his level of player in the FA market.

Plus, in two years, Hamilton will be here anyway. Makes sense to me.

DocProc
DocProc
11/18/2011 5:57:22 PM #

Don't. Touch. Cozart.

I'm not saying he's untouchable; I'm just saying I think we finally solved the SS problem.  Let's not unsolve it unless the offer is just too good to pass up.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/18/2011 6:18:21 PM #

On one level, I agree. But if he's entrenched there, then what do you do with two of your top 10 prospects?

And then there's this: let's say down the road you move Hamilton and trade the DiDi guy I've never heard of (or vice versa). You're doing that AFTER Votto is gone.

I want to win now. Not in three years; now. No one's untouchable in my book.

SlashX
SlashX
11/18/2011 6:21:08 PM #

johnfayman John Fay
#Reds have to weigh the Ballpark Effect heavily when pursing pitching, i.e, Shields, Jurrjens, GGonzalez pitched in pitcher-friendly parks

johnfayman John Fay
Jocketty said Ballpark Effect is something the #Reds look at. Aaron Harang is a shining example of the GABP effect.

As the song says, it's easy to become "Blinded By The Light" when looking at the glaring stats produced by players without really analyzing the context in which those stats were produced.  I am very skeptical of stat geeks falling in love with a player based purely on stats.  If things were only that simple.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
11/18/2011 6:32:58 PM #

Hamilton and Gregorius are both at least 2 years away. Any stop gap would need to be a 3 year solution, barring trades. I also have doubts about his trade value at this point. He's probably undervalued and for that reason I'd be hesitant. Unless, of course, an offer is recieved that reflects the club's percieved value. At that point you would need to investigate the 3 year stop gaps and weigh their respective costs. Not untouchable, but maybe a difficult proposition.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
11/18/2011 6:50:33 PM #

Didi is still 21 and raw but very talented. He may start at AAA this year but has some work to do. Hamilton is 3 to 5 years away at SS. He may move faster as a 2B or CF. I think he moves to 2B long term.

SlashX
SlashX
11/18/2011 6:57:56 PM #

Fact is very few players hit the ground running once they make it to the show.  Usually takes two to three years of part time play for the good ones to get their feet under themselves and become productive.

genewv
genewv
11/19/2011 9:10:41 AM #

I read yesterday where WJ is talking about the effect of pitching in GABP as opposed to some other venues being a major part of deciding whether or not to be pro-active in pursuing certain pitchers who may have had really good success in pitcher friendly parks.

Certainly a legit consideration. Who knows how good/bad some of our guys really are? He used Aaron Harang as an example. Several on here, myself included, often said all Harang might need is to go somewhere  where routine fly balls don't sail out of the field of play--routinely. Well, he left, went to a field where they do not, and bingo, he has another really solid season.

We really need to consider these things when going forward looking for pitching.

Maybe our guys are better than we think? Just a thought. Having issues at home can carry over to other parks by working on your ego, confidence, etc.

GABP also plays into our hitters swinging for the fences at other parks on the road, when they can reach them with regularity, can cause batting slumps, lack of run production, etc. Might call for more contact hitters to be able to score more on the road? Just another thought.

I am full of them, or something, this morning.

Later gang. Been reading all your stuff.

genewv
genewv
11/19/2011 9:12:51 AM #

I meant to add, your stuff has been good, interesting. As I have said before, I just don't have a lot to add in the off season unless a move is made, then I can criticize, like all good fans!

genewv
genewv
11/19/2011 9:15:48 AM #

Uh, where they CAN'T reach them with regularity, I should have said, concerning our hitters.

Somethings never change---like my posting skills.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/19/2011 11:51:41 AM #

I agree with Champ that Hamilton is more of a 2B. He's probably 3 years away. It seems like he made some progress at the plate in the 2nd half of the year. For those of you who have expressed interest in my local HS football team. They had a 20 point halftime lead on the #1 team in the state in D2 last night, for a chance to go to the state final four. They gave up 35 unanswered points in the 2nd half to lose 35-20. I have several very disappointed neighbor kids. 12 -1 season and state final eight is nothing to be ashamed of.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
11/19/2011 1:20:37 PM #

When you guys say Hamilton is more of a second baseman, is this because of his arm? Anyone with that type of speed doesn't have real range issues, right? If he has below average range due to slow reaction time, there are cures for that, no?

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/19/2011 1:54:39 PM #

Arm, from what I have seen(on video) and heard.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/19/2011 2:26:21 PM #

Arm strength or accuracy issues?  I know he had alot of errors this year, but honestly that means little at this stage.  Does he have a weak arm?

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/19/2011 3:52:47 PM #

Certainly not a gun. Average at best,a little sloppy with his feet when he throws. He's young,so it could get better,strength wise,as he matures . Footwork ,obviously, can get better with work.He doesn't have a Janish kind of arm. I stod next to him in person at Redsfest last year. He's built very slightly. He should fill out some.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/19/2011 3:44:18 PM #

No type A compensation for relievers this year. Which means Reds will not be getting a big name closer, as teams w/ more money to spend will gladly lavish those big names w/ big contracts (K-Rod, Cordero, Madson, Heath Bell), knowing that they don't have to give up a draft pick as well.

At the end of the day, this works out better for us. Spending money on closers is stupid.

genewv
genewv
11/19/2011 6:24:40 PM #

Unless you don't have one.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
11/19/2011 6:41:19 PM #

HGH testing starting in February. This could be interesting. 50 games for 1st time offenders? Being a suspicious guy by nature, I'll bet some big names will either fall statistically or fall to suspension. Either way, it's about time something was done. Steroid testing is just plain stupid w/o testing for HGH.

genewv
genewv
11/19/2011 6:45:37 PM #

Yep. Totally agree.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
11/19/2011 10:53:31 PM #

I've got a little list in my head of about 5-6 guys who I've thought for years are not totally "natural". One is a big FA who doesn't smell good. We shall see!

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/20/2011 7:42:57 PM #

It's been a longer than normal college football season for a number of us here at RO hasn't it?

ashlandateam
ashlandateam
11/20/2011 8:11:37 PM #

The Pirates are giving Clint Barmes - he of the .698 OPS in 2011 - a 2 year, $10.5 million deal.

That's like giving $20K for a 1998 Honda Civic.

If those are the FA prices, Walt better make a few trades.

genewv
genewv
11/20/2011 8:16:25 PM #

Yep. At least mine has not been a surprise. Going about as I expected it here at WVU, despite fan excitement to the contrary. Of course, I don't have the agony of NFL fans, as i just don't care much for any professional sports, except our Reds, as I am sure all know on here.

I did watch the second half of the Bengal game today, mostly because I wanted to spend a little family time with my daughter, who watches the NFL every Sunday. She is the sports nut I used to be.

Tough loss for the Bengals, who I have never pulled for. I still don't know how they ruled the catch in the end zone a drop.

I thought one foot down, the other foot down, ball crosses the end zone goal line in full possession of said receiver, play is over--TD.

I guess i don't know all the pro rules anymore?

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/21/2011 8:09:03 AM #

UC was kind of a positive surprise until Collaros got hurt. After that, oy! I guess  I really don't want them to win the Big East and get humiliated in a BCS game. The lack of depth at QB show how little effort Kelly put into recruiting when he was here. He always had one foot out the door.

btalbert25
btalbert25
11/21/2011 9:25:10 AM #

I argued with so many people about how good Kelly really was as a coach and every time people told me I was wrong.  I really think a lot of his success was due to Dantonio before him.  He brought in some good defensive players and great recruiting.  Sure Kelly had 2 great years there at UC, but I he knew what he had  coming back at UC, knew his stock was at it's highest and cashed in on that.

Since he's been at Notre Dame, he's really not done much but throw tirades on the sidelines.  Notre Dame just doesn't get it, they have to go after a coach who believes in establishing a DEFENSE

genewv
genewv
11/20/2011 8:19:19 PM #

Ash,

I really don't think Walt or BC had any intention of wading into the FA market--maybe I am wrong? Just too darn expensive. Territory for the big boys, with deep pockets and nothing else to do with their money.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/21/2011 11:12:19 AM #

Buster_ESPNBuster Olney

Reds are talking about possible Andrew Bailey deal.

Who's Andrew Bailey?  I have never heard of him

bjsReds1
bjsReds1
11/21/2011 11:31:18 AM #

A's closer.  Relatively young.  Mid 90's fastball, curve, and cutter.  Arb eligible for the first time.  Would be a good pickup, IMO depending on what Walt had to give.  Personally, I'd like to see a bigger deal with the A's including Gonzalez or Cahill for a bigger return.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/21/2011 11:30:18 AM #

Timmy - he's a young right handed reliever for the A's.  He's been pretty decent but not as good last year as the two previous years. He was rookie of the year in 2009.  According to his Wiki page "He's never blown a save after the all-star break"  

He's arb eligible but won't be a free agent until 2015.  I'd say he has some value.  Might be a good pick up to close games if they don't have to give up too much, I'm guessing they'd offer him a contract and eliminate his arb years.  

His Wiki page also listed his pitches as the following:

"Bailey's repertoire consists of three main pitches: a four seam fastball, a curveball, and a cutter. Bailey has a very good fastball that he can locate well, coming in at 93–97 mph. Bailey's cutter is also effective at 89–92 mph, and he can often get strikeouts with his fastball or cutter. Bailey's curveball comes in at 78–80 mph, but Bailey usually throws his curveball earlier in the count to get ahead."

bjsReds1
bjsReds1
11/21/2011 11:32:52 AM #

Beat me to it.  What do you know about his surgery in 2010, which was why he missed the first two months of last season?

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/21/2011 11:31:26 AM #

Depending on the cost of Andrew Bailey I'd rather see the Reds make that move and so bye to Cordero.  

kohawk10s
kohawk10s
11/21/2011 11:39:04 AM #

The Reds are talking about a possible deal for Athletics closer Andrew Bailey, tweets ESPN's Buster Olney.  The A's are interested in Yonder Alonso, tweets Jim Bowden of MLB Network Radio on SiriusXM and ESPN.com......from MLB Trade Rumors

ashlandateam
ashlandateam
11/21/2011 11:40:37 AM #

Oakland wants Yonder. If we give up Yonder for a younger version of Cordero, I'm gonna break my hand punching a wall in anger.

River Otter
River Otter
11/21/2011 12:16:13 PM #

I may join you if the Reds trade Alonso for Andrew Bailey.

River Otter
River Otter
11/21/2011 12:19:02 PM #

johnfayman John Fay
I can't see the #reds giving up their best trading chip (Alonso) for ABailey. Starting pitching is bigger priority.


Hopefully Bowden's tweet was in the context of discussions for starting pitching, not the A's closer.

DocProc
DocProc
11/21/2011 12:30:28 PM #

On something of a tangent, if we're going to trade Alonso, I hope it's to an American League team so he doesn't come back to haunt us.  He could also make a good DL in that league.

kohawk10s
kohawk10s
11/21/2011 2:16:18 PM #

A Reds source agrees that Alonso is way too much for Bailey, writes MLB.com's Mark Sheldon.  Sheldon notes that starting pitching is a more pressing need for the Reds than a closer.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/21/2011 2:26:03 PM #

A lot of teams like Yonder Alonso. In fact, I bet 30 teams in MLB, if asked, would say they would like to have Yonder Alonso.

So eff you Jim Bowden, you are a whore.

River Otter
River Otter
11/21/2011 4:14:01 PM #

+1.  This may explain the leather pants.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/21/2011 3:20:19 PM #

Agree with the Alonso comments.  I think if the A's want Alonso that's a good thing - but it's going to cost you a rotation guy- a good one, we'll throw in some prospects and Volquez for Bailey as well.  

And yes it's true, Jim Bowden is a whore.  

Amy
Amy
11/21/2011 3:21:57 PM #

Speaking of whores...

sports.yahoo.com/.../Viva-Las-Vegas-Spending-a-day-with-Pete-Rose-E

(I am a fan of Pete and think he belongs in the hall, but he's just...wow.)

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/21/2011 3:27:34 PM #

BJ - Bailey left a game in Spring Training last year with a strained forearm.  He suffered no damage, and rehabbed for a couple of months before returning and appeared to be fine the rest of the season.  

It must be mentioned that he didn't make a lot of appearances either of the last two years so he could have stamina issues if he sees a lot of action.  As a closer he shouldn't although I'm sure Dusty would try to run him out there on 3-4 consecutive days (see the last Brewers series before the all-star break in 2011 and CoCo for evidence).  

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/21/2011 3:32:31 PM #

I'm with Redfaced - let's make this a big deal.

Oakland needs to replace its outfielders and DH? Cool. You can have Alonso and Stubbs.

The Reds need good pitching. Cool. We'll take Trevor Cahill (he of the 56% groundball rate the last two years, the 23 year old age, and the AL All-Star appearance) and Andrew Bailey.

Done and done. The Reds can sign/trade for a left fielder (Daniel Murphy for Homer Bailey or Edinson Volquez?), we'll play Heisey in center next year and we'll win the division.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/21/2011 3:47:39 PM #

THIS

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/21/2011 3:38:31 PM #

I think it was BJ who mentioned Gio Gonzalez being on the block for Oakland also, he would be a good lefty rotation guy who has put up excellent numbers including 15 wins and 200IP in 2010 and 16 wins and 200+IP in 2011. with low 3.23 and 3.12 ERA in those years.

However, I do fear that his numbers won't translate quite that well to GABP. Very similar to Harang's numbers bouncing back in San Diego last year.  For one he walks way too many people - 4 a game to be exact.  You walk guys in GABP and the next guy doesn't just fly out to end the inning he's hitting a HR half the time.  On the plus side he does get more ground outs than flyouts so that would help some.  I just hate walks and hate seeing a guy giving up 4 a game.  Really if he could get down to 2 BB/game his numbers would be awesome.  

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/21/2011 3:39:24 PM #

That's why I said Cahill - Gonzalez is a flyball pitcher, Cahill is and EXTREME groundball guy (and he's shown it's no fluke, either over the 400 innings the last two years).

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/21/2011 3:43:12 PM #

I agree on Cahill being the better choice for GABP Ash.  Let's make a deal Billy!

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/21/2011 3:45:13 PM #

The more I look at their needs and ours, this is a no brainer. We have guys that make them better; they have guys that make us better. They don't want to deal Cahill; we don't want to deal Alonso.

It's called compromise, and Billy and Walt can do it, everyone can win.

DocProc
DocProc
11/21/2011 3:48:10 PM #

I like that trade, Ash.  Make it, Walt!

DocProc
DocProc
11/21/2011 3:49:18 PM #

Of course, the problem is that Alonso is Billy's type of player--and Stubbs isn't.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/21/2011 3:58:54 PM #

Doc I thought the same thing in regard to Stubbs.

bjsReds1
bjsReds1
11/21/2011 3:58:58 PM #

I really don't want to see Alonso go because I think he's the type of guy this team needs in the lineup.

However, if Alonso can get the Reds Bailey and Cahill, you have to do it.  Ash, I love that trade.  

There are two things I feel pretty strongly about.  The Reds should not bring back Cordero, and the Reds would be much better off without Drew Stubbs in the lineup, especially knowing we've also got Heisey.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/21/2011 4:00:45 PM #

Wow- see what one tiny rumor can do. Let's hear another one tomorrow.  

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/21/2011 5:11:19 PM #

Ash - I might change my mind on Tevor Cahill, he's owed a LOT more money.  Of course most of which would be due after Arroyo and his contract are gone.  Also would be an incentive for Oakland to move him as they would be moving salary.  

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/21/2011 5:14:05 PM #

Eh. 4 years, $30 mil seems fair for a guy who's as good as Johnny Cueto. I would have no problem absorbing that kind of deal.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/21/2011 5:27:40 PM #

I'm not quite convinced he's as good as Cueto or more precisely that he will be as good as Cueto in GABP.  Cahill's home/away splits show a larger difference than Gonzalez's home/away splits did. Cahill is a full run and a half worse on the road.  That concerns me.  Perhaps he's more a product of a pitchers ballpark than Gonzalez is?  I don't want another Uncle Milty type pitcher in the rotation.  

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/21/2011 5:34:51 PM #

Or it could be a product of the terrible Oakland A's team. In 2010, he went 18-8 with an ERA of 2.97, while having a 56% ground ball rate, striking out 5.4 batters a game, and giving up .87 home runs a game.

In 2011, his peripherals improved or stayed the same: .82 home runs allowed, 6.37 strikeouts a game, and that same 56% ground ball rate. And oddly, the ERA went up a run.

That sounds to me like bad luck and/or a bad defense behind him. .302 BABIP sounds awfully high for a guy getting 15 ground balls per nine innings, doesn't it? With BP/Votto/Rolen/Cozart/Francisco/Janish/Cairo in the field, every one of those guys are either good or great, and that BABIP should go way down.

Uncle Milty he's certainly not. At all.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/21/2011 5:31:29 PM #

Ash- I should also note that MLBTR is projecting Gonzalez will earn $4.2MM next year in arb which would be more than the $3.5MM that Cahill is under contract for next year.  So from a money standpoint you could argue it's a wash or darn near close to it.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/21/2011 5:37:15 PM #

Well, I certainly won't complain about Gio Gonzalez. His ground ball rate is nearly 10% lower, but he strikes out three batters a game more, so it may be a wash there.

On the other hand, I think the opposite as you: Gonzalez may cost a fortune to sign long term or buy out arbitration years, while Cahill is already signed to a somewhat reasonable deal with a couple club options.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/21/2011 5:39:05 PM #

This is interesting: Baseball Reference has 'similar players,' and tied at the top spot for Cahill is Johnny Cueto. And Cahill is #2 for Cueto.

I don't know what this means, other than they're probably pretty comparable guys. If Cueto's 2011 is any indication of the future, I'd take two of him any day.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/21/2011 7:15:36 PM #

Ash- I'm not sure I'm necessarily disagreeing with you on Cahill.  I am just leary of getting another Milty I guess.  The ballpark factor scares me with his splits some and I'm sure I'm just being overly cautious.  

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/21/2011 7:19:37 PM #

So I do a little more investigating on the Oakland ballpark "factor" and their defense last year.

It appears they were dead last in fielding % and had the most errors in the AL, definitely a factor - more so for a groundball guy than a flyout guy you have to think.  

Also the Oakland ballpark factor as calculated by Baseball-reference.com is actually closer to GABP than it is to say the Padres.  So not nearly as pitcher friendly a ballpark as people are led to believe.

And for the record Ash- I think you are likely correct on the long-term cost of Cahill being lower than Gonzalez given that Cahill is under contract.  

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/21/2011 7:26:40 PM #

Wow. Can you imagine a sinkerball guy going from a team dead last in fielding percentage to Cincinnati, with Gold Glovers Rolen, Phillips and Votto and a good shortstop on top of it?

Man. As much as we want Cahill, I have to imagine he'd be in favor of it too!

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/21/2011 7:32:55 PM #

For comparison sake - the A's had the 10th highest number of errors in 2010 for the AL and top 5 fielding %.  And of course Cahill's numbers were over a run better in ERA that year as a result.  

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/21/2011 7:47:09 PM #

Wow. You know, for all the stupid stuff I say, I'm actually surprised that one of my hairbrained theories was right. Cahill really WAS unlucky in 2011. Thanks for looking up the numbers!

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/21/2011 7:23:05 PM #

Just a quick clarification on the whole "ballpark factor" item.  Seattle and San Diego are clearly pitchers parks given the rankings, GABP is clearly a hitters park although not as much as Seattle and San Diego are pitchers parks.  Oakland is rated a very slight edge to the pitchers but basically you could say it's even.  

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/21/2011 7:28:17 PM #

So Jon Heyman has some free agent signing $$ predictions at si.com.  He estimates what he thinks the free agents will eventually sign for and while I think he's a bit high on some of the lower end free agents I think he's pretty close on Pujols, Fielder and Reyes.  Here's the link:

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.../index.html

The money he's predicting for CoCo and Dog is borderline scary if you ask me.  

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/21/2011 7:34:12 PM #

In case you don't want to read the entire article - he predicts $12M 2yr for Dog and $16M 2yrs for Cordero.  

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/21/2011 7:46:41 PM #

Amy - Interesting piece on Rose.  I hate seeing him pimp himself out like that really but I guess if he's making that kind of money doing it there's no better way for him to do it outside of baseball and he's not ever going to get the chance to make another $ in baseball so why not.  It just seems to tarnish his legacy some.  But I guess he's earned both, the right to pimp out his name and the tarnish he's accumulated.    

Amy
Amy
11/21/2011 10:27:19 PM #

Did you guys see this pic? Outside Crosley Field? Love all the hats.

i780.photobucket.com/.../1940CrosleyWS-2.jpg

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/22/2011 12:50:25 AM #

I loved Crosley Field. There are so many memories of my youth there, in the 60's not the 40's, for any of you wise asses out there. Great times with my dad watching great baseball players.

SlashX
SlashX
11/22/2011 8:07:25 AM #

Whaddya mean see it??  I was in it.

River Otter
River Otter
11/22/2011 9:26:43 AM #

Very cool

Amy
Amy
11/22/2011 9:35:51 AM #

You're the guy in the hat, right?

SlashX
SlashX
11/22/2011 1:37:50 PM #

Yes, sitting on the crate.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/22/2011 12:50:50 AM #

Is anyone going to Redsfest?

Hebron Reds Fan
Hebron Reds Fan
11/22/2011 11:58:24 AM #

My kid's and I will be there both days.  We never miss it.  Ages 16 and 14 and they still like hanging out with Dad at a game or at Redsfest.  Absolutely I'm going.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/22/2011 1:09:03 PM #

We had been discussing the Homer Bailey to the bullpen idea before and I mentioned Fayman had discussed that Bailey loosens up really slow.  He addressed it on twitter again today.

johnfaymanJohn Fay

RT @GREGCDILLARD any chance the Reds might look at Homer Bailey as a potential closer?//Doubtful. He takes a long time to get warmed up

Somehow I posted this on an earlier thread by mistake, so here it is in its proper place

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/22/2011 1:09:35 PM #



And don't look for anyone to get busted for HGH this spring.

Buster_ESPNBuster Olney
Players will be blood tested this spring, to determine energy levels after testing; results of testing will be discarded. Then, after results of physical reaction to blood testing is determined, the two sides will determine when and how to proceed.

Wow, as if two vials of blood are going to make them suffer.  MLB union is immensely powerful, how ridiculous.  Athletes have free reign to use HGH all offseason

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/22/2011 1:13:57 PM #

One other thought, then I'm heading to class.  The more that I read and think about this new CBA, along with seeing how FA prices are shaking out so far, I think this is going to KILL the small market teams in the league.  FA prices are going through the roof, more super 2 players, higher minimum salary, and it is now tougher to go all in on the draft because these ir no draft slotting but there is a draft spending cap, so you can't draft guys in lower rounds that fall because of sighability issues and pay them bugger bucks because of the financial penalty from the league.  If a team like the Reds miss on any of their top draft picks, they could be in big, big trouble  

River Otter
River Otter
11/22/2011 2:05:44 PM #

That's my impression from what I've read as well.  Sounds like the ability to compete through the draft and international signings just went out the window.  Hopefully there are some loopholes that smart small market teams will figure out, but otherwise there's going to be even more disparity between the haves and have nots.

Amy
Amy
11/22/2011 3:08:59 PM #

Heard "Santeria" on the radio this afternoon and had a spring training flashback Smile

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/22/2011 3:42:58 PM #

Here is some info the draft changes from mlbtraderumors.com

"Teams that spend more than 5% over-slot on the draft will face a 75% tax. Teams that go over slot by 5-10% face a 75% tax and the loss of a first rounder. Teams that go over slot by 10-15% face a 100% tax and the loss of a first and second rounder. Teams that exceed slot by 15% or more face a 100% tax and the loss of two first rounders."

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/22/2011 3:44:03 PM #

Here's more:

"Teams in the ten smallest markets and with the ten lowest revenues will enter a lottery for six additional first and second round picks, according to Bill Shaikin of the LA Times (on Twitter).
Teams that don't exceed their draft spending limit will have a chance to obtain picks from teams that over-spent."

River Otter
River Otter
11/22/2011 4:19:39 PM #

Is Cincinnati is the bottom 10?  I suppose that was the trade-off for some of the other provisions.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/22/2011 3:46:05 PM #

Some other interesting tidbits about the new CBA..

"MLB rosters will expand to 26 for some doubleheaders.

Instant replay will be expanded to include fair/foul plays and "trap" plays, subject to discussions between MLB and the umpires."

All taken from mlbtraderumors.com

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/22/2011 3:46:57 PM #

Braun deservedly won the NL MVP I have heard.  

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/22/2011 4:38:41 PM #

"Jim Callis of Baseball America (via Twitter) calculates that 20 teams went 16% or more over slot this year, which would have triggered 100% tax and a loss of two first-rounders under this CBA."   Yeeeoooooozzzzzaaaaaa

SlashX
SlashX
11/22/2011 5:10:41 PM #

Good from MLB and Mark Sheldon:

http://tinyurl.com/6msu5t8

SlashX
SlashX
11/22/2011 5:11:30 PM #

that would be good NEWS.

River Otter
River Otter
11/22/2011 5:54:03 PM #

Good summary from Jonah Keri on the new CBA: www.grantland.com/.../mlbs-new-cba-is-no-help-to-small-market-clubs


By the way, it appears from the photo that MLB has company issued suits like the government agency in Men in Black. When Manfred got his suit, I wonder if he told  Selig:  "The difference between you and me is that I make this suit look GOOD!"

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
11/22/2011 5:54:26 PM #

that is good

Sitting in STL at the airport across from the stupid cardinal filled gift shop. its bad enough I was up til 3am in Vegas last night after several makers and coke doubles. My stomach is now even more unsettled.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
11/22/2011 5:56:38 PM #

I'm finally near the end of my heavy fall travel season. two more weeks of some local FL travel. Have to get to Miami one more time and then over to Dawgs neck of the woods.

Hopefully i'll be back here just in time for some action to start.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/22/2011 6:21:17 PM #

Good breakdown on the new CBA Otter.  

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/22/2011 9:25:22 PM #

So it looks like Ryan Hanigan is on the Angels shopping list.  No problem, just make them pay Walt!

bjsReds1
bjsReds1
11/22/2011 10:20:43 PM #

If the Reds trade Hanigan and bring back Dog, they can forget about their pitching being any better unless they trade for Shields and Jurrjens.  The difference between the pitching last year with Dog and Hanigan behind the dish as well as what Yadi does for the Cards shows the importance of a catcher that can call a game.  Also, Dog is the last guy that should be tutoring Mes.

I'm not necessarily against trading Hanigan for a position of need.  The Reds just better be careful here because I seriously doubt what they'd get in return would outweigh Hanigan's potential impact on the pitching, especially since the other catcher, while talented, is a rookie.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/22/2011 11:00:00 PM #

Hanigan is a guy I keep at all costs. Much better than he gets credit for, really improved all around last 2 years.

clearly he works at it, not a guy I want to trade.

Amy
Amy
11/22/2011 11:38:59 PM #

What he said.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/23/2011 7:30:36 AM #

Clearly any catcher that goes undrafted, is undersized for the position, and has no standout "tools" works hard at developing himself, or he'd still be in Dayton or Bakersfield or selling insurance in Orlando.  I think Ryan Hanigan is fabulous, and would love him to be part of the team for a long time.  But if the Angels want him, and he can bring back something the Reds need, then you have to listen.  There is not a single MLB franchise that would put the "untouchable" label on a part-time catcher.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/22/2011 11:37:00 PM #

Votto finished 6th in the MVP vote I noticed.  

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/22/2011 11:38:35 PM #

If scioscia wants Hanigan then that tells me the Reds should keep him.  Well actually I already new that.  But that's not to say they couldn't put together a package that would make me change my mind.  

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
11/23/2011 7:19:13 AM #

Scioscia also wanted to get rid of Mike Napoli.  How did tha work out for them this year?

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
11/23/2011 1:56:53 AM #

right...no one is untouchable. If they really like someone you can ask for the moon. If you don't get them to overpay then stay put.

River Otter
River Otter
11/23/2011 7:31:14 AM #

Absolutely.  I'd be hesitant to trade Hanigan for the reasons everyone else stated, but it never hurts to listen.  

SilentBob
SilentBob
11/23/2011 2:29:55 AM #

In my opinion Hanigan is just about as untouchable as any Red. I think that the catching situation is pretty well set. Hanigan/Mes then Mes/Grandal. We should be good for the next 6 years. If someone makes an offer for Hanigan they are going to have to blow me out of the water.

genewv
genewv
11/23/2011 8:28:37 AM #

Bob,

But, you are so stealth ( as your moniker implies ), they would never know you were IN the water!

Just felt a little humorous this morning. Agree with you--and others.

I just need to comment every now and then so folks don't think I died from non-participation in the off-season stuff.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/23/2011 8:55:45 AM #

Just wanted to comment on the new TypeA/TypeB status for Hernandez and Cordero as a result of the new CBA  I think it's a good thing for the Reds.  Reds get compensation for each one and don't have to offer arbitration in order to get it.  Sure it's supplemental picks but I'm cool with that.  

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/23/2011 8:59:30 AM #

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!  Today is Thanksgiving dinner at the office.  We won't get much done today but we'll get good quality bonding time.  

SlashX
SlashX
11/23/2011 9:09:46 AM #

Rumor has it that Farney will be taking a minor league coaching position next year. Don't know for whom yet.

SlashX
SlashX
11/23/2011 9:14:35 AM #

Don't have a real problem with trading Hanigan with the obvious assumption that the Reds get good help in return.

Not real excited with the prospect of resigning Dawg.  Would rather have Corky as backup.  He does call a good game and could provide valuable mentor-ship to Mes.

Mary
Mary
11/23/2011 9:59:33 AM #

Doc Proc has written us a new starter, so time for a fresh thread everyone

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