11/10/2011 6:17:56 PM #

I start by canning Baker and replacing him with whomever doesn't get the gig in Chicago and St Louis.  Mackanin?  Alomar Jr?  Sveum?  Anyone, really, who has a chance at handling a young team.  I am willing to spend money on that.

I'm too lazy to look up numbers, but after that I'd probably look to deal Votto to the highest bidder.  I want a package something like Pineda and Ackley from the Ms.  Will throw in Volquez and Stubbs to make that deal work if necessary.  I tell Phillips he can walk after 2012.  Spend the money you save minus Votto to go get a LF (Willingham?) plan on playing Heisey in CF unless a better option becomes apparent.  Offer Hernandez arb, let Cordero walk (don't want to risk him accepting).  Assume I can trade Volquez for something (throw in for the Votto deal?  A ham sandwich?)  Masset, Bray, Bailey, Janish get arb.  Bye bye to Renteria and Willis.  

Going into the spring I try to stretch out Chapman and see if Ackley can play a little bit of 3B or LF.  Long term plan is Chapman as a SP or a 'lesson learned" and Ackley at 2B after Phillips' contract is up.  If all goes well, I end up with this:

Mesoraco/Hanigan C
Alonso 1B
Phillips 2B
Cozart SS
Rolen/Francisco/Frazier/Ackley 3B
Janish UT
Wililngham LF
Heisey CF
Bruce RF
random non-roster/minor league OF
random non-roster/minor league OF

Pineda SP
Cueto SP
Arroyo SP
Bailey/Leake SP
Wood/Chapman SP

non-roster or FA or Bailey RH RP
non-roster or FA  or Horst or Wood, LH RP
Lecure RP
Masset RP
Boxberger RP (hopefully closer by the end of the year)
Ondrusek RP
Bray RP

Team will cost about the same as last year, and I guarantee they would win at least as many games.  Progress?  Maybe... but it sets the team up better for the long-term and doesn't hurt them too much in the short term.

rpa |

11/10/2011 8:27:00 PM #

ORF,

Really neat "stories" you developed to get all we RO junkies our promotions, budget, etc.

I am impressed.

That said, all know i don't know enough about other teams to begin to talk trades, etc. I will do what i do with Walt--[b]wait till he makes the moves--or not--and then be critical, disagree![b] Should be interesting.

genewv |

11/10/2011 8:28:14 PM #

Some happened to my fonts! Oh well, no one is surprised, i am sure.

genewv |

11/10/2011 8:29:56 PM #

My someTHING as well. I started to say my "thing," but the jokes would have ran wild, I know my friends.

genewv |

11/10/2011 9:10:15 PM #

Of course not. Stellar group, they are!

genewv |

11/10/2011 9:20:21 PM #

Don't resign Sancho, Cordero, Janish, Willis or Hernandez.

Sign all the arbitration players for whatever (I really don't know details here.

Make two trades:

ATL Gets: Drew Stubbs, Homer Bailey, Kristopher Negron
CIN Gets: Martin Prado, Jair Jurjjens

and

COL Gets: Edinson Volquez, Nick Masset, Todd Frazier
CIN Gets: Huston Street and Matt Belisle

Your lineup:

Phillips 4
Cozart 6
Votto 3
Rolen/Francisco/Prado 5
Bruce 9
Heisey 8
Prado/Alonso 7
Mes/Hanigan 2

Rotation:
Cueto
Arroyo
Jurjjens
Leake
Chapman

Bullpen:
Street
Belisle
Ondrusek
Bray
Boxberger
LeCure

Done and done. Get a random aging shortstop to backup Cozart, and that team wins 90 games in 2012 AND stays within the $88 mil budget.

AshlandATeam |

11/10/2011 9:30:19 PM #

Matt Belisle has been a stud out of the bullpen for the Rockies. He's been great pretty much ever since he left Cincinnati.

ashlandateam |

11/10/2011 11:39:22 PM #

Randomness and off topic, because it's what I do best.

1) This article from April seems downright creepy now:
www.timesonline.com/.../...-9ae5-001a4bcf6878.html

2) I find it telling that two of my favorite songs from what is probably my favorite "recent" band have shown up on the new B&B episodes.  I still have some kind of weird attachment to this song, and I think it's the best video of the last 5 years or so:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyaDTiXH3R4

rpa |

11/10/2011 11:39:30 PM #

Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Confirmed: Pujols will meet with #Marlins on Friday or Saturday in Miami. First reported by @MatthewHLeach of MLB.com. #STLCards #MLB

Grizzlyfox |

11/10/2011 11:41:03 PM #

Great idea ORF, I wish I had the energy to do proper research and come up with a great roster. Alas. I'm just too lazy.

RPA, I noticed that you would offer Hernandez arb yet still project Snacks/Hanigan at catcher. I'm assuming you think he would turn down arbitration? Probably a good assumption but if he accepts it could get interesting. If Hernandez wins the Reds might be faced with keeping Snack at AAA for another year or trading Hanigan. As far as Pineda, I'm just not sold on the guy. He's had some elbow issues and I don't think his numbers against lefties are that impressive. From what I've read on M's blogs there is no way they give up Pineda and Ackley for Votto. They think they can get him for Pineda and an handful of near-misses, salary dumps and roster fillers.

Ash I don't see either of your trade proposals as realistic. Sorry, I just don't see enough return for the other team.

Going back to the last thread, does anyone else see the Jones signing as significant? It probably isn't, But I'm wondering if signing a left-handed bat for the OF means that maybe we might be trading a left handed OF ... or maybe a OF/1B?

SilentBob |

11/11/2011 12:08:01 AM #

SB,

You could be right on my trades. Two things though:

- Prado and Street are both being shopped. That means you can automatically drop their asking prices. Both teams simply want to free up money, and combined they make around what Cordero did in 2011. I think we can get both of them easily.

-Jurjjens is another story, but I really believe that Stubbs hasba ton of value to those who don't see him everyday. Think of it like this - he had a league average OBP, 30+ steals, played great D and hasn't yet reached arbitration... And that's WITH 200 Ks. He was a 2.6 win player, flaws and all; this guy is a major trade chip, even if he annoys some of us (ok. All of us). I think of all the players in my two made up trades, he has the most value.

You could certainly be right though.

ashlandateam |

11/11/2011 12:28:03 AM #

Man...still to early to speculate this much. I could never do Walts job.

RPA assumes he turns it down and walks. My guess is there was a gentlemans agreement that if we didn't trade him he's not accept.

If he does accept we keep and deal him to whatever team has the biggest hole behind the plate. After ST someone is always worried about there position behind the plate.

Champ Summers |

11/11/2011 12:52:02 AM #

some of you guys would kill to come down here for Orlando Calling. First day is right up the alley of several of you hipster types

Champ Summers |

11/11/2011 12:53:47 AM #

no way do you deal Hanigan. Hernandez was really bad down the stretch. He did almost nothing and his D sucked and he runs slower than my wife.

Champ Summers |

11/11/2011 1:20:43 AM #

I'm with you Champ. And as I've pointed out previously, almost every pitcher on the Reds roster has a higher ERA when Dog is behind the plate. On the other hand, with the current dearth of catchers who can hit a little, he could have some value to other teams. It might be worth it to offer arb. It could be a win/win for the Reds. If he declines we have the draft pick. If he accepts and loses we have a modestly priced catcher to trade. If he accepts and wins then we still have a market priced catcher to add to a trade package.
I think RPA might be onto something.

SilentBob |

11/11/2011 8:47:40 AM #

sports.yahoo.com/.../Pujols-to-visit-Marlins-Jose-Reyes-8216-almos

Marlings likely to add Reyes, Pujols to visit this weekned. Now we know where all that money went.......savings!

Grizzlyfox |

11/11/2011 9:11:52 AM #

I was going to say how the hell can the Marlins afford one of them much less both.  Perhaps they are expecting a spike in attendance with the new stadium?

btalbert25 |

11/11/2011 11:35:09 AM #

Holy blockbuster, Walt:

www.redreporter.com/.../trade-rumors-ckershaw-ckoming-to-ckincinnati

Amy |

11/11/2011 1:23:48 PM #

Sorry, I'm late to this "be the new GM" discussion.

So here I go:

Fire Dusty, get a real hitting instructor, and trade Stubbs for a pitcher or a sandwich.

There.  I just added ten wins to our season.  I'll work out the rest of the details later.

DocProc |

11/11/2011 2:04:46 PM #

Hideous. Home jersey's will reflect glare of sun into my eyes.

Road jerseys just look bleak. Who wears a black jersey? The White Sox? Yeah, they just look funny. Black w/ sunny orange and sky blue? Just weird.

eye-on-baseball.blogs.cbssports.com/.../33240352

Grizzlyfox |

11/11/2011 3:20:35 PM #

Those uniforms may keep Pujols and Fielder from signing with the Marlins.  

RedFaced |

11/11/2011 4:14:48 PM #

Read this. That is all.

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.../index.htm

Amy |

11/11/2011 6:04:27 PM #

Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Sources: #Marlins have made substantial offers to both Reyes and Pujols. #STLCards #Mets #mlb

Grizzlyfox |

11/11/2011 6:41:16 PM #

It's funny to see Papelbon's contract being panned because 'four year deals for relievers don't work out.'

You know what? Cordero's did. For all our pissing and moaning, that guy gave us 4 solid, All-Star level seasons. Can't complain there.

(note: I'm really, REALLY hoping his next contract is with another team. But still).

AshlandATeam |

11/11/2011 7:40:02 PM #

Timmy, I just saw your comment up higher in the thread. Both groups are considered more indie than country, so you can tell your wife that--maybe she'll go along. I'd recommend going, if you can at all manage it.

Take her for dessert at Intermezzo afterward. I'd go see the crappiest music ever for dessert at Intermezzo.

Amy |

11/11/2011 10:39:03 PM #

Thinking over the possibilities of Stinky and Reyes going to Miami and Joey the Bat leaving the 'nati, I might have to become a Marlins fan. After all, that's the closest team to me. I can't stand the idea that Joey will most likely experience his most productive years in some other uniform. Just makes me sick to think about it. Having been a Reds fan since the 60s, it would be a traumatic thing to change allegience, but if the time has come when Cincy cannot hold on to someone of Votto's abilities, it might be time for me to move on. Hey Walt, don't let this happen!

Dawginnaples |

11/11/2011 10:47:01 PM #

Ramos is safe:

http://www.vivacolorado.com/noticias/ci_19317517

Amy |

11/12/2011 12:36:55 AM #

espn.go.com/.../reds-should-hold-on-to-joey-votto

Champ Summers |

11/12/2011 12:39:11 AM #

NEW YORK -- The proposed sale of the Houston Astros from Drayton McLane to Jim Crane is on the agenda for approval when baseball owners meet next week, The Associated Press has learned.

Two people familiar with the negotiations say McLane, Crane and Major League Baseball have reached an understanding on how a possible shift of the franchise to the American League in 2013 would take place. The people spoke on condition of anonymity because MLB had made no announcements.

Champ Summers |

11/12/2011 1:28:22 PM #

Concerning the Marlins who have extended contract offers to Reyes, Pujols and Buehrle:   Team officials have stated they  don't expect to get all 3 and they don't believe their offer to Pujols is high enough.  

The timing also seems suspect to me, introduce the new uniforms, the new stadium and then make these three contract offers.  I would not be surprised if some of it isn't just a ploy to stir up some additional season ticket sales.  They may have legitimate interest in signing Reyes and perhaps even Buehrle but I have to feel the whole Pujols contract offer is a ruse to help sell the team to their fanbase.  I mean hey, they tried right.  But the best player in baseball just wanted more money than he is worth.  Not to mention they get to stir the media attention by giving the appearance they are "in the running" for Albert.  

If so I have to applaud their efforts.  Perhaps the Reds should make some low-ball offers to top free agents to help convince us and others in Redsland that they are committed to winning in 2012.  

RedFaced |

11/12/2011 1:29:56 PM #

Amy - excellent story I enjoyed it immensely.  

ORF - I need to think on the GM question more and will post my thoughts later.  Thanks for the new starter and for getting us all thinking from a different perspective on the moves this off-season.

RedFaced |

11/12/2011 4:11:44 PM #

BOILER UP!!!!!

We're one win away from going to the Papa John's Motor City Big O Tires Bowl!

ashlandateam |

11/12/2011 5:54:41 PM #

This one's probably worth more than a thousand words:

hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/.../picture-of-the-day-wilson-ramos-hugs-mom

Amy |

11/12/2011 8:08:00 PM #

Soccer,

Thought about you today as the football game was progressing. Really tough losing Collandros that way. I truly hope he is not seriously injured. Any further word on him?

I am sure we don't beat you with him healthy, but, the FB gods tend to be much more cruel than the baseball gods as a rule--today being no exception.

Did you get to attend the game? Just wondering.

Later

genewv |

11/12/2011 9:11:30 PM #

Uh, Collaros. Sorry about that Soccer.

genewv |

11/12/2011 10:44:32 PM #

Gene - I got photo mail from my daughter from the game. Sounds like 20 or 30 members of my family were in attendance. They all went home dissappointed. Oh well, football fans in Cincinnati are used to that. I'd be fine with that if the daggone professional baseball team would get back to the WS once in a while.
  Was up at Niagara falls today. The incredible, natural power there has a way of trivializing all your cares and worries. Think I might come here a couple times per baseball season.
             Dawginrochester

Dawginnaples |

11/13/2011 10:48:14 AM #

www.nytimes.com/.../...pp-hal-morris-weddings.html

Chris Sabo's Goggles posted that this morning--thought I'd share.

Amy |

11/13/2011 10:51:12 AM #

Amy,

Fantastic ending to that piece.

Champ Summers |

11/13/2011 11:29:02 AM #

Exactly...that is a very odd announcement

Champ Summers |

11/13/2011 6:25:47 PM #

Mike Matheny is new manager of the Cardinals. And if the rumors are true that means sayonara Albert.

AshlandATeam |

11/13/2011 6:34:30 PM #

cant post in FF. Says waiting for Gravitar????

Champ Summers |

11/13/2011 7:41:25 PM #

I hope we don't have that gravetar issue again.

Dawginnaples |

11/13/2011 7:42:14 PM #

Anybody - What is Cincy TV saying about Green's knee?

Dawginnaples |

11/13/2011 9:24:29 PM #

Champ, try upgrading the FF 8.0 and restarting your browser to see if that fixes the issue for you.

RedFaced |

11/13/2011 9:25:05 PM #

Just saying because my FF auto updated and when it restarted the Gravitar issue disappeared.  

RedFaced |

11/14/2011 8:23:22 AM #

From MLB Traderumors:

The Jays need an everyday second baseman, which leads Elliot to speculate on Brandon Phillips.

SlashX |

11/14/2011 1:39:15 PM #

Awesome little post about the birth of a rumor.

angels.ocregister.com/.../

Amy |

11/14/2011 1:57:50 PM #

The more I think about it, the more I would also love to see the Reds do everything possible to keep Votto.  Even if that means paying him more than they can afford.  I think just having a guy like Votto adds value to the organization.  2 more seasons like the one he just had, and the guy is going to be nationally known.  He's going to be a player people want to come watch.  He's going to be a perennial all star and candidate for MVP. He's going to keep the Reds on the map.  They probably aren't going to keep Phillips around long term and he's the only other guy the Reds have that meet that criteria, other than Possibly Chapman.  

The Reds have been missing a guy like that for, well really a long time.  Larkin may have been that guy, Griffey certainly was early on, but as injuries set in year after year, he lost a lot of that luster.  Perhaps, Votto could be that guy.  The guy that people in Nebraska, New York, Arizona etc have his jersey and like to see succeed. When I was in Texas for the World Series in 2010, Joey was at the game accepting the Hank Aaron award.  Random people at the stadium saw my reds gear and said man that Votto is one heck of a player.  When I was in Sedona, AZ this summer a lady and her husband were at the pool.  Her husband said I love the Reds, and Votto is my favorite player.  Sure these are just a couple of chance encounters, but they also happened to be the last 2 times I was more than 500 miles from Cincinnati and people know and love this guy. A couple of more years of this level of play and Votto is going to be the super star the Reds haven't had for a long time.  I don't know, I think that draws a lot of revenue to a team that maybe isn't considered when we start talking about contacts.  

I have a feeling, attendance with Votto on the team for the next 2 seasons would have to be greater than this team without Votto.  Even if he's traded for a quality pitcher, season ticket sales are going to drop and people are going to say here we go again, the Reds are giving up and trading away their good players.  I could be wrong, but I think this franchise loses a lot financially without Votto on the team.

btalbert25 |

11/14/2011 2:23:21 PM #

bta - I could not agree with you more.  

I think the Reds could lock him up for 5-7 yrs and keep him for 4 yrs minimum of that contract and still be able to move him if the money isn't there to allow them to keep him through the end of the contract.  That's at least 4 more years.  

The trouble for a small market team like the Reds is taking that chance that he declines and isn't worth the money in 5 yrs.  Then the Reds move him and eat a lot of the contract.  Given his age, durability and numbers so far I think that's a risk the Reds can take.  

RedFaced |

11/14/2011 2:28:04 PM #

While i don't look for the reds to keep Votto beyond his current contract, i certainly would not vote against keeping him longer, if they can somehow work it out contractually--still find a way to stay competitive. Not a easy chore.

genewv |

11/14/2011 2:29:28 PM #

What Red's fan cannot love Joey Votto?

He would certainly bring in at least a portion of that contract--if it is not humungus.

genewv |

11/14/2011 2:30:36 PM #

By humungus, of course, I mean worth eleventy gazillion.

genewv |

11/14/2011 2:33:48 PM #

I see no reason why Votto would sign an extension now.  He's in his prime, getting paid big bicks the next two years, and deferring his free agency longer would put him in a Pujols situation, where teams question whether they want to pay a guy for the downward slope of his career.  And since Lozano is Votto and Albert's agent, I'm pretty sure he knows this.  Get comfortable with the idea of Votto playing somewhere else, cause It's very, very likely

timmytwoshoezzz |

11/14/2011 3:14:49 PM #

RPA...I think Le Grande Prince D'Orange would be Prince Fielder's moniker.  especially in that uniform-it fits.

I was very disheartened when I saw what happened to Zachary Collaros.  Dude's a pit bull with a caffeine high.  UC will bounce back, though.  They have a "Next Man In" philosophy.

I really strongly detest the team that is from the confluence of the Allegheny and the Monongahela.  Especially the Bengals' ex-head coach.

On a good note, it looks like our dog is out of the woods as far as cancer goes.  He's starting to get his puppy eyes back and he gets a little fiesty every now and then-just a little more energetic every day.  That and his hair thickening up.

Jabberwocky |

11/14/2011 4:11:41 PM #

This is, far and away, the best article I've read about the Penn State garbage. www.grantland.com/.../the-brutal-truth-penn-state

AshlandATeam |

11/14/2011 4:11:59 PM #

I'm certainly not against keeping Votto, but there's no way I'm for the Reds breaking the budget for him.  I want the Reds to win.  If they win, attendance will come.  If you pay a superstar just for attendance, it's likely the rest of the team will stink and the only reason fans will come is for the star.

Baseball takes a full 25 guys to win.  The Rangers could have kept some of their so called superstars a few years back.  Instead they got quality and quantity in return and are now in the middle of a multi year run as one of the best teams in baseball.  

If the Reds, as a small market team, can afford Votto and also can afford to put quality players around him, whether that is youth or not, then great.  Go for it.  But don't re-sign Votto and then have it where you are signing Johnny Gomes and Fred Lewis to play LF and Dontrelle Willis to pitch in the rotation.  If you resign Votto, spend the extra money to put some pieces around him.  Or do it through trades or whatever.  Just don't give us Votto and nothing us else.  It won't win games and is what I'm afraid what will end up happening.

bjsReds1 |

11/14/2011 4:17:46 PM #

I want to see talent and players that compliment each other on the field, in the batting order, and in the rotation and bullpen.  I'm tired of seeing the Reds settle for one or the other type players that really aren't good at anything - like Johnny Gomes.  Sure you can't always have 5 tool guys everywhere.  There is a give and take, but have guys compliment each other.  The Reds are a team with a bunch of guys with the same strengths and weaknesses.  They need to mix it up a little.  If trading Votto is the best way to do that, it makes the Reds a better team.  Lastly, the Reds have been better over the past 20 years when they didn't have what anyone would consider a true superstar at the beginning of the season.

bjsReds1 |

11/14/2011 7:06:13 PM #

Thanks for the link Ash, sometimes you need to hear someone say it how it is.

RedFaced |

11/14/2011 7:27:17 PM #

I'm firmly entrenched in the "not trading Votto" camp, unless you are getting equal, proven talent in return. The type of talent that has been productive in the past and is a high percentage risk to continue to produce. And you know what that means? The same kind of price tag that comes with Votto. I can visualize a scenario where the team makes a deal that ranks in the top 10 worst in history. That is the risk when you consider moving a guy like Joey. They could easily end up less competitive, less attractive to the fans, and less valuable as an organization. This type situation has a high risk of being the worse trade since Frank Robinson.

Dawginnaples |

11/14/2011 7:35:55 PM #

I also agree with bjs that good teams have a mix match of talents and skills. Any guy with Joey's skills should be your building block. If you need to keep salary low, do so with the other pieces of the puzzle. Every good team needs a Stinky, Wright, Fielder, Hamilton, A-Rod, ED44, Bonds, MvGuire, etc. To get a guy like that you need to pay. Would 2 Jay Bruce's make up for one Votto? Not likely. Thing is, it would eventually cost more.


Dawginbuffalo

Dawginnaples |

11/14/2011 10:09:36 PM #

Gene, I've been away from here for a couple of days. Good game Saturday. The football gods certainly didn't side with the Bearcats. Then again you make your own breaks. Don't miss a field goal early in the game and the last one you miss isn't needed. It's a real bad break losing Collaros. Hopefully Munchie can hold down the fort till the end of the season. The local HS team won their playoff game and goes to the regional final on Friday against the #1 team in the state in D2. Other than that, everything football related sucked. We've got friends that are from,as they say, West By God Virginia. They are also Steelers fans. They kind of rubbed it in a bit, but not too bad.

Soccerdad13 |

11/14/2011 10:39:07 PM #

testing

Champ Summers |

11/14/2011 11:30:26 PM #

Why do I have to call someone to find out about the mini ticket plans for spring training? Why on EARTH can't you just put that information on the website. That's what teh intarwebs are FOR, people. Gah.

Amy |

11/15/2011 7:28:33 AM #

I may be targeting that 3/14 SS set and then the march 16th game and then come home Sat Morning.

I hope they are on the road on the road the 17th and not off

Champ Summers |

11/15/2011 7:42:47 AM #

Probably going to see the March 9 and 10 games in Scottsdale (Giants) and Phoenix (Athletics).  Might only see morning workouts at Goodyear this year.

DocProc |

11/15/2011 8:51:56 AM #

you and that Scottsdale thing...

I can fly in early on the 14th see both games then they play LAD away(which I haven't seen yet then the 16th is home at 7:05. Thats a good golf day or trip to the canyon.

Champ Summers |

11/15/2011 11:24:28 AM #

mlbtraderumors has a post that says the Rays are targeting 1B and DH but also want to hold onto their pitching depth.  It also says they would give up their pitching depth if Joey Votto came available.  Like most everyone else, I'd love nothing more than to see Votto stick around for a long time in Cincinnati.  He is the guy you build the future around.  

However, pitching more than anything else, especially in GABP, wins championships.  Because of GABP, we have to have really good pitching.  Let's say the Reds can get James Shields, either Hellickson or Matt Moore, and a prospect for Votto.  As much as I love Votto, I just don't see how you don't do that trade.  Instantly, the Reds would have two top of the rotation guys in Cueto and Shields, maybe the best young starter in baseball in Hellickson or Moore, a veteran #4 with something to prove in Arroyo, and competition between Wood and Bailey for #5.  That rotation is better than any other in the division.

Then you move Alonso to first, let Stubbs and Heisey compete for CF, and then put out an incredibly attractive offer to Michael Cuddyer or trade Stubbs for a LF bat.  I love Joey, but that team would be better and could compete for championships better than the one with him on it because of the pitching.

bjsReds1 |

11/15/2011 11:56:02 AM #

Is Votto the only 1B on this team?  Why not Alonso?  Granted, he won't get Shields but what about 2 or 3 VERY High Level starting prospects?  At least one should be better than our 4th & 5th.

Yes, the Reds can keep Alonso longer and Votto gives the team more leverage (the Votto-Boom Affect).  Now we get into what-if scenarios.  What if the prospects vault the Reds into the playoffs, which helps the Reds payroll and keeps Votto here?

Everyone seems to think Votto is gone when his contract is up.  What if he's not?  It is his decision, but what if he's on a winner here?  Wouldn't that factor into the decision-making process?

Sorry...I get a little "excited" about all these scenarios.  Do the Reds need to get better personnel in certain areas?  Yes.  Do they need to get rid of the MVP to get it?  I doubt it.  It's a beautiful carrot to dangle, but that would be a last resort, not the first in my book.

Jabberwocky |

11/15/2011 12:03:28 PM #

Doc - I don't see Chapman in the Reds rotation in 2012.  The Reds pissed away 2011 as far as his development imo.  Wasted a year.

RedFaced |

11/15/2011 12:23:17 PM #

How about this:

The Marlins appear to be serious about getting Reyes.  Hanley Ramirez doesn't want to move from SS - he had a miserable 2011 compared to his career stats.  He also battled with a shoulder injury in 2011 but will begin baseball activities the first of the year.  

The Marlins want Albert (so they say) but likely can't afford him.  So what about a deal with Miami that involved Hanley and money to the Reds for Alonso.  Yep straight up, they dump some salary and a guy who has soured some in Miami and will be playing out of position.  There could also be some minor players involved with this deal but those as the only two primaries.  Alonso is from Miami of course.  There is risk both ways but the Marlins get a guy under team control and dump salary they can spend elsewhere.

Not saying I'd necessarily make this trade. I like Alonso, I'd like to see what he can do for 150 games a season.  I also am scared of Hanley a little but I do suspect he'll bounce back.  The money owed to him is a big issue for the Reds.  So tough call.  I do have to wonder if the Marlins don't plan on trying to move Ramirez given some of their comments and activity recently.  

RedFaced |

11/15/2011 12:26:57 PM #

Jabberwocky - I have to agree on the Votto front.  I don't trade him, don't offer to trade him and certainly don't shop him. If someone comes to me and makes me an offer that I can't refuse well then I have to seriously consider it.  

But I think the writing is on the wall.  Unless Votto signs a short extension this off-season or during 2012 he will likely hit free agency after 2013 and he has made comments suggesting he'll get what his value demands.  I think most assume the Reds will not be the top bidder if that happens, an assumption I have to agree with.  

RedFaced |

11/15/2011 12:35:46 PM #

I'll absolutely take Hanley Ramirez and I said so a couple of years ago.  The guy is a phenominal talent.  I know he has attitude issues, but this team with a healthy Rolen and possible other strong veteran presence will be able to change that attitude quickly.  Florida had a lot of problems, no leadership, and poor management.  No one demanded Ramirez stay in line.  This guy being healthy with Phillips at 2nd, we'll have a great double play combination.

btalbert25 |

11/15/2011 12:38:49 PM #

fandemad?

RedFaced |

11/15/2011 2:25:33 PM #

Two things on the trade rumors:

- Hanley Ramirez has already agreed to move to third. In fact, from what I've read, he's the one who went to the Marlins and told them to get Reyes, because they're apparently pretty close. I don't think Miami is trading him.

- I can only assume Tampa Bay isn't willing to trade two of Shields/Moore/Hellickson for Votto, because if the Reds could get two of those guys (and add, oh, 10 wins to the team, even WITH the loss of Votto) and choose not to for some convoluted reason, my head will explode.

AshlandATeam |

11/15/2011 2:48:06 PM #

Anyone who gives this guy $100 mil deserves what they get. At this point, it's simple insanity to expect these guys to come over and be aces.

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.../index.html

AshlandATeam |

11/15/2011 3:12:17 PM #

Ash - I guess I read some bad info on Hanley not wanting to move.  Of course the article was talking about him moving to CF and he mentioned it never being discussed with him and basically said he wasn't moving.  So I guess I read too much into that one article and should have dug for more info and turned up the third base move discussions.  

RedFaced |

11/15/2011 4:28:40 PM #

I don't want Hanley Ramirez unless Walt hires Bobby Cox as his manager.  Hanley Ramirez would walk all over Dusty Baker and Dusty being the players manager that he is would let him.

This time of year, the Reds aren't getting any great deals in a trade unless it's a salary dump.  So if they want some players that are going to really make an impact now, they're going to have to give up quality.  Sure I'm not actively seeking to trade Votto, but I'd sure as heck listen to Tampa more than anyone if they called because they have lots of exactly what the Reds need - pitching.

bjsReds1 |

11/15/2011 5:17:12 PM #

Anybody going to Redsfest? I always *want* to go but never do, because I host a Christmas party that Sunday afternoon and I'm too busy getting ready for it every year. Maybe I'll be organized this year???

Amy |

11/15/2011 9:01:34 PM #

Hey, if anyone gets an email from my old hotmail addy, please disregard. Someone took advantage of its inactivity and hacked me. Should be all taken care of now. Sorry!

Amy |

11/16/2011 8:57:36 AM #

In case someone didn't see this late yesterday.  From mlbtraderumors.com

"Reds GM Walt Jocketty says the team will hold on to the first baseman, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com (via Twitter). Jocketty indicated that the Reds will try to lock Votto up to a long-term deal within the next year."

Also...

"The Reds are among the teams who have contacted the Braves to inquire on Jair Jurrjens."

RedFaced |

11/16/2011 8:59:23 AM #

Allow me to say again that I would be THRILLED to get Jurrjens and would be willing to see the Reds give up several of their bargaining chips to get him.

DocProc |

11/16/2011 9:00:12 AM #

Jon Heyman is tweeting from the GM meetings and here is his twitter link:

http://twitter.com/#!/SI_JonHeyman

RedFaced |

11/16/2011 9:07:50 AM #

I'm with you Doc.

RedFaced |

11/16/2011 9:32:50 AM #

www.redreporter.com/.../trade-rumors-for-realsies-this-time-jair-jurrjens-jumping-to

Red Reporter isn't sold, and if he's had a drop in velocity, then I'm not either.  I think we saw what the loss of even a few mph on the gun did to guys like Arroyo and Jimenez.

timmytwoshoezzz |

11/16/2011 10:40:54 AM #

How about Bailey and Stubbs for Jurrjens?

DocProc |

11/16/2011 10:53:05 AM #

Reported that Marlins offer to Pujols will llikely be in the 9 year, 220 million dollar range, or about 20-30 million more than the Cardinals offer.

Grizzlyfox |

11/16/2011 11:06:07 AM #

It blows me away how a fanbase who watched Volquez, Bailey, Arroyo, Wood and Willis last year can 'not be sold' on a 25 year old All-Star with a career ERA of 3.40 coming off a year where it was 2.96. I mean... really?

And you know what Milwaukee gave up for Greinke? A no hit, all field shortstop; an enigmatic center fielder; a hard throwing but wild reliever; and an A ball pitcher. And to get that wonderful package, they also had to throw in a starting shortstop for the Brewers.

That makes the Reds' equivalent look like this:

ATL gets:
CF Drew Stubbs
SS Paul Janish
RHP Nick Masset
*A ball pitcher

CIN gets:
RHP Jair Jurjjens
OF Matt Diaz

THAT, friends, is a recreation of the MIL-KC deal. That's probably not what Atlanta is thinking (and there'd be no reason to take back another guy like Milwaukee did), but Drew Stubbs is already better than anyone Milwaukee gave up. He and a couple others would be plenty to get the deal done, and the Reds absolutely, positively should.
ATL gets:

AshlandATeam |

11/16/2011 11:20:49 AM #

Grizz - I believe the state income taxes would allow the Marlins to match any offer St Louis makes and Pujols would pocket more money.  

I have seen where it's rumored Miami made a 9 yr offer but have not seen the amount reported yet.  I also have seen where it's rumored the WLB's offer was actually slightly less than $200MM last year.  

RedFaced |

11/16/2011 11:36:24 AM #

A 9-year contract is insanity. The guy is *at least* 31 years old. I mean, I know he'll get it, but I'm just sayin'.

Amy |

11/16/2011 12:01:03 PM #

I'm with Ash on the Jurrjens

Amy - Yes 9 yrs is crazy.  I honestly feel that Albert has already started his decline, I seriously question whether he's worth the money in 5 yrs much less 9.  

RedFaced |

11/16/2011 1:26:34 PM #

25 years old, 41-37 MLB record, 3.83 ERA, 1.29 WHIP

25 years old, 50-33 MLB record, 3.40 ERA, 1.28 WHIP

The first is Cueto; the second is Jurrjens.  Explain to me why we wouldn't want a pitcher who is a (small) uptick on our best starter?

DocProc |

11/16/2011 1:44:41 PM #

I think the WLB's will be a worse team without Pujols next year if they don't resign him, I think they'll be worse off long term if they do sign him.  Looks like a win win for Reds fans.  

RedFaced |

11/16/2011 1:56:50 PM #

I'm with Doc - I don't understand the hesitancy on JJ. Like he pointed out, he's basically Cueto. We all seem to be fans of him, even though he didn't pitch enough innings last year to qualify for the ERA title either.

And Timmy, how has JJ been trending backwards? 2011 was his best year.

Atlanta used to have a reputation for never losing a trade. The last few years (back to, oh, 2008 or so), though, it's tough to find one they've won.

AshlandATeam |

11/16/2011 2:03:54 PM #

I understand Timmy's hesitancy to make a move for JJ.  I think for these reasons you don't give up a LOT for him but it's going to take a little or you'll never get a deal done.  

I think there's a lot of upside to a guy like this and he's under team control until 2014.  Heck you might even be able to sign him for 4-yrs if you want to take that risk.  But at least if you trade for a guy like this with a lot of upside you aren't going to get stuck with him long term if he doesn't work out.  Unlike Pujols and his likely 9 yr contract.  I say for a guy who is arb eligible I take the chance on him if the asking price isn't too steep.

RedFaced |

11/16/2011 2:06:37 PM #

To back up what Grizz stated earlier about the Pujols rumors, I have also heard now that the Marlins offer is rumored to be 9 yrs $225MM.  Apparently the WLB's are back in talks with his agent now.  Oh and Prince Fielder wants 8 yrs and $200MM.  Buyer beware on him too I say.

RedFaced |

11/16/2011 2:06:58 PM #

I certainly think a trade for Jurrjens would have to include a contingency on an MRI or two.  If the Reds get him, though, it would probably be the best trade they could manage in that I bet they wouldn't have to give up Alonso.

I'd give up Stubbs for any good piece the Reds need right now - bullpen, SP, LF.  If he could bring back someone the caliber of JJ, I'd be doing dances around GABP.

bjsReds1 |

11/16/2011 2:08:14 PM #

If you can get JJ for what Ash proposed, then sure.  However, I'm guessing that Atlanta will want a lot more than that.  I am concerned about giving up top prospects for a pitcher who's had some injuries the last couple of years and whose average fastball last year was below 90.  

River Otter |

11/16/2011 2:12:35 PM #

Grizz and RF - Wow, it just seems insane that the Marlins would make that offer to Pujols.  I suppose they want to make a big splash as they move into a new stadium, but I think they'll regret the half of that deal.

River Otter |

11/16/2011 2:21:57 PM #

Otter - I have no idea what the Marlins are thinking if they are serious about the offers to Reyes and Pujols.  How they think the money will be there long-term is beyond me.  They team has never generated any ticket sales even when they have good years.  Perhaps they feel that this would cement the fan base in Miami but I don't know how you can bank on it happening.  I don't think anyone wants that Pujols contract in 5 yrs.  

RedFaced |

11/16/2011 2:22:15 PM #

I think I'd rather have Jujens than Shields.  Everyone seems to be sold that he is going to be a number 1 if he pitched in another division besides the great AL East.  I'm impressed by Jurjens than Shields(who probably isn't getting traded anyway).

btalbert25 |

11/16/2011 2:23:36 PM #

Of course perhaps they are only doing it to generate ticket sales now, perhaps they only offered Pujols around the same dollars that the WLB's did and don't think he'll accept their offer, and perhaps they leaked the rumors that they offered more than they actually did.  Who knows what's really going on in their front office.  But I will say this.  People are talking about the Marlins and not the Reds.  

RedFaced |

11/16/2011 2:24:24 PM #

I think Shields may be the better pitcher but one thing is for sure - he's going to cost a LOT more to get.  For that reason JJ seems more likely to me.

RedFaced |

11/16/2011 3:46:25 PM #

Rumor has it now that the WLB's will be resigning Albert on Friday.  Cards are denying the rumor but the source is said to be credible.  Hmmmmm

RedFaced |

11/16/2011 4:10:20 PM #

I know that one game does not equal a season (or a career), and that this game happened relatively early in 2011--but this is when I remember thinking "Wow, this dude can pitch."

mlb.sbnation.com/.../atlanta-braves-cincinnati-reds-score-news

DocProc |

11/16/2011 5:29:40 PM #

And of course now the rumors are stating the Marlins offer to Pujols is less than $200MM also.  Can't say I'm surprised.  

RedFaced |

11/16/2011 5:52:29 PM #

If this site is correct those of us in the Ohio Valley could be in for a harsh winter.

snowday.community.officelive.com/...rForecast.aspx

They also report that the Marlins' offer to Pujols was over $200MM so who knows.

RedFaced |

11/16/2011 9:46:33 PM #

RO's florida office is always open

Champ Summers |

11/16/2011 10:45:25 PM #

Saw this on mlbtraderumors.com tonight.

The Reds "made good progress" with Brandon Phillips' agent today, though no long-term deal is imminent yet, tweets Jon Fay of the Cincinnati Enquirer.

RedFaced |

11/17/2011 9:31:30 AM #

Did anyone see the insider stuff on ESPN about Cole Hamels being available?  That would be interesting, although I'm sure he's going to get tons of money after next season.

bjsReds1 |

11/17/2011 10:27:09 AM #

So word on the street today is that the Marlins offers to Reyes and Pujols were actually much lower than was originally leaked.  So yeah, once again I don't believe it was anything more than an effort to drive up ticket sales.  Perhaps they are serious about signing Reyes but people are stating that their offer to Pujols was well below the original WLB's offer at the beginning of last season.  That's obviously not going to get it done.  

Not saying it's not a bad strategy, I actually think it's pretty smart although a bit deceiving to the fan base.  

RedFaced |

11/17/2011 10:35:26 AM #

Jocketty interview on mlb.com

mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=19997441

RedFaced |

11/17/2011 10:39:49 AM #

Basically Jocketty states that for 2012 his focus is on finding an experienced starter to stabilize the rotation.  He also mentioned resigning Cordero or finding help for the back of the bullpen.  

RedFaced |

11/17/2011 11:17:44 AM #

I am adamantly anti-Cordero, unless he wants to come back for under 4 mil a year, which he doesn't.

DocProc |

11/17/2011 11:19:10 AM #

I am generally against a long-term BP contract, unless he wants to come back for less than 8 mil a year, which he doesn't.

DocProc |

11/17/2011 11:22:55 AM #

In case you missed it, I'm against throwing long-term, high-salary contracts to aging players who were part of last year's losing team.  I want our big money to go to upgrades, not retreads.  I like BP, but not for the kind of contract he wants.  And I've never liked Cordero, as you probably know--but especially not now.

DocProc |

11/17/2011 12:36:01 PM #

Don Juan Francisco's home was robbed last night, according to 700 WLW.  Juan was not injured.

I hope they didn't steal his home runs for next year.

Jabberwocky |

11/17/2011 12:51:50 PM #

Astros will move to AL in 2013 - basically official now.  Also looks like the expanded playoffs (one additional wildcard team) is official as well - trying to get it worked into the 2012 season.  

RedFaced |

11/17/2011 2:01:35 PM #

First of all- no way JJ is in the same league as JS; not yet. My solution? Trade for them, both. Anyone except Cueto, BP, Votto, Snacks, and Grandal is available, so long as the composition of the trade is equal in value for all parties. I can't think of anyone else who is truly irreplaceable when it comes to building a rotation that could rival the Philberts. I know- I know; it gonna happen. But if your going to dream.....

  Dawginnaples again.  

Dawginnaples |

11/17/2011 3:05:27 PM #

"My guess is we’ll see an AL team in for Opening Day 2013."  That was at the end of Fay's post about the Astros moving to the AL.

Now, I'm not saying this won't happen, but why in the world would Fay speculate on this?  At least one team from each league will open the season with an interleague game, but to guess who at this point is just silly.

bjsReds1 |

11/17/2011 5:29:13 PM #

The Mets have made Daniel Murphy available. Anyone interested?

He's 26, under team control 3 more years, and has a 3 year slash line of .292/.343/.441 in a pitcher's park.

He sounds like a perfect candidate to get back for a Volquez or a Bailey; the Mets need pitching, and they could talk themselves into one of our back end guys being better in Citi Field than Cincy.

AshlandATeam |

11/17/2011 5:33:53 PM #

In case any of you missed this, here's a pretty funny video of Ryan Theriot's defensive stylings from last year:  www.redreporter.com/.../this-is-just-fantastic

River Otter |

11/17/2011 5:57:07 PM #

Had this interesting exchange on twitter.  Surprised he admitted as much.

Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
Assuming that it gets done, the one-game playoff in the WC round was the right decision for MLB, for a whole bunch of reasons.

timothyjwyant Timothy Wyant
@
@Buster_ESPN If MLB=owners, then yea, it was the right decision. #moneytalks

Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
@
@timothyjwyant Yes. The whole industry is built to make money; the decisions are for money. It's a business.

timmytwoshoezzz |

11/18/2011 1:35:32 PM #

Happy Friday everyone.  

RedFaced |

11/18/2011 3:29:07 PM #

From Jamie Ramsey at Better Off Red:

"The Reds added to the 40-man roster IF Didi Gregorius, RHP Kyle Lotzkar, IF Donald Lutz, IF Henry Rodriguez, IF Neftali Soto and RHP Pedro Villarreal…the 40-man roster is at 40 players."

Not sure who is exposed for the Rule 5 draft now as a result.  I shall investigate and report back.

RedFaced |

11/18/2011 3:38:18 PM #

This is a little older but thought I'd share since no-one else has mentioned it. Baseball America released the top 10 prospects for the Reds and here is the list:

1. Devin Mesoraco, c
2. Billy Hamilton, ss
3. Yonder Alonso, 1b/of
4. Yasmani Grandal, c
5. Zack Cozart, ss
6. Daniel Corcino, rhp
7. Robert Stephenson, rhp
8. DiDi Gregorius, ss
9. Todd Frazier, 3b/1b/of
10. Brad Boxberger, rhp

I'm not sure if it's good or bad that 4 of the top 10 will be playing for the Reds this season in all likelihood.  I can see both sides of that argument.  

What I find odd relates to the SS position.  We all feel that's a weak spot for the organization but 3 of the top 10 are shortstops.  Also, Billy Hamilton appears to be rated a bit too high in my opinion.  He's still young and trying to develop his hitting, until he proves he can hit the ball at AA I'm not going to allow myself to get that high on the kid.  I love his speed but it doesn't help the team from the plate to the dugout.  

RedFaced |

11/18/2011 3:41:22 PM #

Jamie Ramsey also reported the following will be attending RedsFest this year:

    Yonder Alonso
    Zack Cozart
    Todd Frazier
    Jeremy Horst
    Devin Mesoraco
    Chris Valaika
    Tucker Barnhart
    Brad Boxberger
    Yasmani Grandal
    Billy Hamilton
    Drew Hayes
    Ryan LaMarre
    Josh Smith

RedFaced |

11/18/2011 3:42:31 PM #

The guy I'm most excited about on that list?  Boxberger.  I think he's our closer of the future.  Hope that comes sooner, not later.

DocProc |

11/18/2011 3:47:50 PM #

johnfayman John Fay
RT @symdev @johnfayman any surprises?//Bigger factor is who is exposed to Rule 5. I'm no expert on that.

The last games the Reds played was in SEPT and you can't figure out who's Rule5 eligible by now?  Fayman amazes me sometimes...

timmytwoshoezzz |

11/18/2011 3:55:35 PM #

BTW, I had not seen this previously but Baseball America announced their top 20 prospects from the 2011 International League and 4 Reds made the list.  #3 was Mesoraco, #11 Cozart, #13 Alonso and #20 Frazier.  

RedFaced |

11/18/2011 4:00:58 PM #

Redreporter.com listed 9 Reds who were eligible for the Rule 5 draft.  Of them only 1 (Neftali Soto) was placed on the 40 man so it would appear that the remaining are elegible for the December 8th draft.  I'm sure there are other minor league lists that can be used to protect some of these guys, I'm uncertain of that process but I know the deadline to have all rosters set for the Rule 5 draft is tomorrow.  Here's the remaining list:

James Avery

Eric Campbell

Tom Cochran

Mike Costanzo

Jerry Gil

Bill Rhinehart

James Skelton

Travis Webb  

RedFaced |

11/18/2011 4:47:22 PM #

Given that top 10 list, I'm not so sure trading Cozart isn't a good move. I'm pretty sure if he's the centerpiece, Atlanta would gladly move JJ. And if we signed a guy like, oh, Alex Gonzalez or Rafael Furcal for the next season or two, we'd be ok there and still have plenty of wiggle room for more moves. Plus, we won with Orlando Cabrera - we could find his level of player in the FA market.

Plus, in two years, Hamilton will be here anyway. Makes sense to me.

AshlandATeam |

11/18/2011 5:57:22 PM #

Don't. Touch. Cozart.

I'm not saying he's untouchable; I'm just saying I think we finally solved the SS problem.  Let's not unsolve it unless the offer is just too good to pass up.

DocProc |

11/18/2011 6:21:08 PM #

johnfayman John Fay
#Reds have to weigh the Ballpark Effect heavily when pursing pitching, i.e, Shields, Jurrjens, GGonzalez pitched in pitcher-friendly parks

johnfayman John Fay
Jocketty said Ballpark Effect is something the #Reds look at. Aaron Harang is a shining example of the GABP effect.

As the song says, it's easy to become "Blinded By The Light" when looking at the glaring stats produced by players without really analyzing the context in which those stats were produced.  I am very skeptical of stat geeks falling in love with a player based purely on stats.  If things were only that simple.

SlashX |

11/18/2011 6:32:58 PM #

Hamilton and Gregorius are both at least 2 years away. Any stop gap would need to be a 3 year solution, barring trades. I also have doubts about his trade value at this point. He's probably undervalued and for that reason I'd be hesitant. Unless, of course, an offer is recieved that reflects the club's percieved value. At that point you would need to investigate the 3 year stop gaps and weigh their respective costs. Not untouchable, but maybe a difficult proposition.

Dawginnaples |

11/18/2011 6:50:33 PM #

Didi is still 21 and raw but very talented. He may start at AAA this year but has some work to do. Hamilton is 3 to 5 years away at SS. He may move faster as a 2B or CF. I think he moves to 2B long term.

Champ Summers |

11/18/2011 6:57:56 PM #

Fact is very few players hit the ground running once they make it to the show.  Usually takes two to three years of part time play for the good ones to get their feet under themselves and become productive.

SlashX |

11/19/2011 9:10:41 AM #

I read yesterday where WJ is talking about the effect of pitching in GABP as opposed to some other venues being a major part of deciding whether or not to be pro-active in pursuing certain pitchers who may have had really good success in pitcher friendly parks.

Certainly a legit consideration. Who knows how good/bad some of our guys really are? He used Aaron Harang as an example. Several on here, myself included, often said all Harang might need is to go somewhere  where routine fly balls don't sail out of the field of play--routinely. Well, he left, went to a field where they do not, and bingo, he has another really solid season.

We really need to consider these things when going forward looking for pitching.

Maybe our guys are better than we think? Just a thought. Having issues at home can carry over to other parks by working on your ego, confidence, etc.

GABP also plays into our hitters swinging for the fences at other parks on the road, when they can reach them with regularity, can cause batting slumps, lack of run production, etc. Might call for more contact hitters to be able to score more on the road? Just another thought.

I am full of them, or something, this morning.

Later gang. Been reading all your stuff.

genewv |

11/19/2011 9:12:51 AM #

I meant to add, your stuff has been good, interesting. As I have said before, I just don't have a lot to add in the off season unless a move is made, then I can criticize, like all good fans!

genewv |

11/19/2011 9:15:48 AM #

Uh, where they CAN'T reach them with regularity, I should have said, concerning our hitters.

Somethings never change---like my posting skills.

genewv |

11/19/2011 11:51:41 AM #

I agree with Champ that Hamilton is more of a 2B. He's probably 3 years away. It seems like he made some progress at the plate in the 2nd half of the year. For those of you who have expressed interest in my local HS football team. They had a 20 point halftime lead on the #1 team in the state in D2 last night, for a chance to go to the state final four. They gave up 35 unanswered points in the 2nd half to lose 35-20. I have several very disappointed neighbor kids. 12 -1 season and state final eight is nothing to be ashamed of.

Soccerdad13 |

11/19/2011 1:20:37 PM #

When you guys say Hamilton is more of a second baseman, is this because of his arm? Anyone with that type of speed doesn't have real range issues, right? If he has below average range due to slow reaction time, there are cures for that, no?

Dawginnaples |

11/19/2011 1:54:39 PM #

Arm, from what I have seen(on video) and heard.

Soccerdad13 |

11/19/2011 3:44:18 PM #

No type A compensation for relievers this year. Which means Reds will not be getting a big name closer, as teams w/ more money to spend will gladly lavish those big names w/ big contracts (K-Rod, Cordero, Madson, Heath Bell), knowing that they don't have to give up a draft pick as well.

At the end of the day, this works out better for us. Spending money on closers is stupid.

Grizzlyfox |

11/19/2011 6:24:40 PM #

Unless you don't have one.

genewv |

11/19/2011 6:41:19 PM #

HGH testing starting in February. This could be interesting. 50 games for 1st time offenders? Being a suspicious guy by nature, I'll bet some big names will either fall statistically or fall to suspension. Either way, it's about time something was done. Steroid testing is just plain stupid w/o testing for HGH.

Dawginnaples |

11/19/2011 6:45:37 PM #

Yep. Totally agree.

genewv |

11/19/2011 10:53:31 PM #

I've got a little list in my head of about 5-6 guys who I've thought for years are not totally "natural". One is a big FA who doesn't smell good. We shall see!

Dawginnaples |

11/20/2011 7:42:57 PM #

It's been a longer than normal college football season for a number of us here at RO hasn't it?

RedFaced |

11/20/2011 8:11:37 PM #

The Pirates are giving Clint Barmes - he of the .698 OPS in 2011 - a 2 year, $10.5 million deal.

That's like giving $20K for a 1998 Honda Civic.

If those are the FA prices, Walt better make a few trades.

ashlandateam |

11/20/2011 8:16:25 PM #

Yep. At least mine has not been a surprise. Going about as I expected it here at WVU, despite fan excitement to the contrary. Of course, I don't have the agony of NFL fans, as i just don't care much for any professional sports, except our Reds, as I am sure all know on here.

I did watch the second half of the Bengal game today, mostly because I wanted to spend a little family time with my daughter, who watches the NFL every Sunday. She is the sports nut I used to be.

Tough loss for the Bengals, who I have never pulled for. I still don't know how they ruled the catch in the end zone a drop.

I thought one foot down, the other foot down, ball crosses the end zone goal line in full possession of said receiver, play is over--TD.

I guess i don't know all the pro rules anymore?

genewv |

11/20/2011 8:19:19 PM #

Ash,

I really don't think Walt or BC had any intention of wading into the FA market--maybe I am wrong? Just too darn expensive. Territory for the big boys, with deep pockets and nothing else to do with their money.

genewv |

11/21/2011 11:12:19 AM #

Buster_ESPNBuster Olney

Reds are talking about possible Andrew Bailey deal.

Who's Andrew Bailey?  I have never heard of him

timmytwoshoezzz |

11/21/2011 11:30:18 AM #

Timmy - he's a young right handed reliever for the A's.  He's been pretty decent but not as good last year as the two previous years. He was rookie of the year in 2009.  According to his Wiki page "He's never blown a save after the all-star break"  

He's arb eligible but won't be a free agent until 2015.  I'd say he has some value.  Might be a good pick up to close games if they don't have to give up too much, I'm guessing they'd offer him a contract and eliminate his arb years.  

His Wiki page also listed his pitches as the following:

"Bailey's repertoire consists of three main pitches: a four seam fastball, a curveball, and a cutter. Bailey has a very good fastball that he can locate well, coming in at 93–97 mph. Bailey's cutter is also effective at 89–92 mph, and he can often get strikeouts with his fastball or cutter. Bailey's curveball comes in at 78–80 mph, but Bailey usually throws his curveball earlier in the count to get ahead."

RedFaced |

11/21/2011 11:31:26 AM #

Depending on the cost of Andrew Bailey I'd rather see the Reds make that move and so bye to Cordero.  

RedFaced |

11/21/2011 11:39:04 AM #

The Reds are talking about a possible deal for Athletics closer Andrew Bailey, tweets ESPN's Buster Olney.  The A's are interested in Yonder Alonso, tweets Jim Bowden of MLB Network Radio on SiriusXM and ESPN.com......from MLB Trade Rumors

kohawk10s |

11/21/2011 11:40:37 AM #

Oakland wants Yonder. If we give up Yonder for a younger version of Cordero, I'm gonna break my hand punching a wall in anger.

ashlandateam |

11/21/2011 12:30:28 PM #

On something of a tangent, if we're going to trade Alonso, I hope it's to an American League team so he doesn't come back to haunt us.  He could also make a good DL in that league.

DocProc |

11/21/2011 2:16:18 PM #

A Reds source agrees that Alonso is way too much for Bailey, writes MLB.com's Mark Sheldon.  Sheldon notes that starting pitching is a more pressing need for the Reds than a closer.

kohawk10s |

11/21/2011 2:26:03 PM #

A lot of teams like Yonder Alonso. In fact, I bet 30 teams in MLB, if asked, would say they would like to have Yonder Alonso.

So eff you Jim Bowden, you are a whore.

Grizzlyfox |

11/21/2011 3:20:19 PM #

Agree with the Alonso comments.  I think if the A's want Alonso that's a good thing - but it's going to cost you a rotation guy- a good one, we'll throw in some prospects and Volquez for Bailey as well.  

And yes it's true, Jim Bowden is a whore.  

RedFaced |

11/21/2011 3:21:57 PM #

Speaking of whores...

sports.yahoo.com/.../Viva-Las-Vegas-Spending-a-day-with-Pete-Rose-E

(I am a fan of Pete and think he belongs in the hall, but he's just...wow.)

Amy |

11/21/2011 3:27:34 PM #

BJ - Bailey left a game in Spring Training last year with a strained forearm.  He suffered no damage, and rehabbed for a couple of months before returning and appeared to be fine the rest of the season.  

It must be mentioned that he didn't make a lot of appearances either of the last two years so he could have stamina issues if he sees a lot of action.  As a closer he shouldn't although I'm sure Dusty would try to run him out there on 3-4 consecutive days (see the last Brewers series before the all-star break in 2011 and CoCo for evidence).  

RedFaced |

11/21/2011 3:32:31 PM #

I'm with Redfaced - let's make this a big deal.

Oakland needs to replace its outfielders and DH? Cool. You can have Alonso and Stubbs.

The Reds need good pitching. Cool. We'll take Trevor Cahill (he of the 56% groundball rate the last two years, the 23 year old age, and the AL All-Star appearance) and Andrew Bailey.

Done and done. The Reds can sign/trade for a left fielder (Daniel Murphy for Homer Bailey or Edinson Volquez?), we'll play Heisey in center next year and we'll win the division.

AshlandATeam |

11/21/2011 3:38:31 PM #

I think it was BJ who mentioned Gio Gonzalez being on the block for Oakland also, he would be a good lefty rotation guy who has put up excellent numbers including 15 wins and 200IP in 2010 and 16 wins and 200+IP in 2011. with low 3.23 and 3.12 ERA in those years.

However, I do fear that his numbers won't translate quite that well to GABP. Very similar to Harang's numbers bouncing back in San Diego last year.  For one he walks way too many people - 4 a game to be exact.  You walk guys in GABP and the next guy doesn't just fly out to end the inning he's hitting a HR half the time.  On the plus side he does get more ground outs than flyouts so that would help some.  I just hate walks and hate seeing a guy giving up 4 a game.  Really if he could get down to 2 BB/game his numbers would be awesome.  

RedFaced |

11/21/2011 3:43:12 PM #

I agree on Cahill being the better choice for GABP Ash.  Let's make a deal Billy!

RedFaced |

11/21/2011 3:48:10 PM #

I like that trade, Ash.  Make it, Walt!

DocProc |

11/21/2011 3:49:18 PM #

Of course, the problem is that Alonso is Billy's type of player--and Stubbs isn't.

DocProc |

11/21/2011 3:58:54 PM #

Doc I thought the same thing in regard to Stubbs.

RedFaced |

11/21/2011 3:58:58 PM #

I really don't want to see Alonso go because I think he's the type of guy this team needs in the lineup.

However, if Alonso can get the Reds Bailey and Cahill, you have to do it.  Ash, I love that trade.  

There are two things I feel pretty strongly about.  The Reds should not bring back Cordero, and the Reds would be much better off without Drew Stubbs in the lineup, especially knowing we've also got Heisey.

bjsReds1 |

11/21/2011 4:00:45 PM #

Wow- see what one tiny rumor can do. Let's hear another one tomorrow.  

RedFaced |

11/21/2011 5:11:19 PM #

Ash - I might change my mind on Tevor Cahill, he's owed a LOT more money.  Of course most of which would be due after Arroyo and his contract are gone.  Also would be an incentive for Oakland to move him as they would be moving salary.  

RedFaced |

11/21/2011 5:31:29 PM #

Ash- I should also note that MLBTR is projecting Gonzalez will earn $4.2MM next year in arb which would be more than the $3.5MM that Cahill is under contract for next year.  So from a money standpoint you could argue it's a wash or darn near close to it.

RedFaced |

11/21/2011 5:39:05 PM #

This is interesting: Baseball Reference has 'similar players,' and tied at the top spot for Cahill is Johnny Cueto. And Cahill is #2 for Cueto.

I don't know what this means, other than they're probably pretty comparable guys. If Cueto's 2011 is any indication of the future, I'd take two of him any day.

AshlandATeam |

11/21/2011 7:15:36 PM #

Ash- I'm not sure I'm necessarily disagreeing with you on Cahill.  I am just leary of getting another Milty I guess.  The ballpark factor scares me with his splits some and I'm sure I'm just being overly cautious.  

RedFaced |

11/21/2011 7:19:37 PM #

So I do a little more investigating on the Oakland ballpark "factor" and their defense last year.

It appears they were dead last in fielding % and had the most errors in the AL, definitely a factor - more so for a groundball guy than a flyout guy you have to think.  

Also the Oakland ballpark factor as calculated by Baseball-reference.com is actually closer to GABP than it is to say the Padres.  So not nearly as pitcher friendly a ballpark as people are led to believe.

And for the record Ash- I think you are likely correct on the long-term cost of Cahill being lower than Gonzalez given that Cahill is under contract.  

RedFaced |

11/21/2011 7:23:05 PM #

Just a quick clarification on the whole "ballpark factor" item.  Seattle and San Diego are clearly pitchers parks given the rankings, GABP is clearly a hitters park although not as much as Seattle and San Diego are pitchers parks.  Oakland is rated a very slight edge to the pitchers but basically you could say it's even.  

RedFaced |

11/21/2011 7:28:17 PM #

So Jon Heyman has some free agent signing $$ predictions at si.com.  He estimates what he thinks the free agents will eventually sign for and while I think he's a bit high on some of the lower end free agents I think he's pretty close on Pujols, Fielder and Reyes.  Here's the link:

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.../index.html

The money he's predicting for CoCo and Dog is borderline scary if you ask me.  

RedFaced |

11/21/2011 7:46:41 PM #

Amy - Interesting piece on Rose.  I hate seeing him pimp himself out like that really but I guess if he's making that kind of money doing it there's no better way for him to do it outside of baseball and he's not ever going to get the chance to make another $ in baseball so why not.  It just seems to tarnish his legacy some.  But I guess he's earned both, the right to pimp out his name and the tarnish he's accumulated.    

RedFaced |

11/21/2011 10:27:19 PM #

Did you guys see this pic? Outside Crosley Field? Love all the hats.

i780.photobucket.com/.../1940CrosleyWS-2.jpg

Amy |

11/22/2011 12:50:50 AM #

Is anyone going to Redsfest?

Soccerdad13 |

11/22/2011 1:09:03 PM #

We had been discussing the Homer Bailey to the bullpen idea before and I mentioned Fayman had discussed that Bailey loosens up really slow.  He addressed it on twitter again today.

johnfaymanJohn Fay

RT @GREGCDILLARD any chance the Reds might look at Homer Bailey as a potential closer?//Doubtful. He takes a long time to get warmed up

Somehow I posted this on an earlier thread by mistake, so here it is in its proper place

timmytwoshoezzz |

11/22/2011 1:09:35 PM #

And don't look for anyone to get busted for HGH this spring.

Buster_ESPNBuster Olney
Players will be blood tested this spring, to determine energy levels after testing; results of testing will be discarded. Then, after results of physical reaction to blood testing is determined, the two sides will determine when and how to proceed.

Wow, as if two vials of blood are going to make them suffer.  MLB union is immensely powerful, how ridiculous.  Athletes have free reign to use HGH all offseason

timmytwoshoezzz |

11/22/2011 1:13:57 PM #

One other thought, then I'm heading to class.  The more that I read and think about this new CBA, along with seeing how FA prices are shaking out so far, I think this is going to KILL the small market teams in the league.  FA prices are going through the roof, more super 2 players, higher minimum salary, and it is now tougher to go all in on the draft because these ir no draft slotting but there is a draft spending cap, so you can't draft guys in lower rounds that fall because of sighability issues and pay them bugger bucks because of the financial penalty from the league.  If a team like the Reds miss on any of their top draft picks, they could be in big, big trouble  

timmytwoshoezzz |

11/22/2011 3:08:59 PM #

Heard "Santeria" on the radio this afternoon and had a spring training flashback

Amy |

11/22/2011 3:42:58 PM #

Here is some info the draft changes from mlbtraderumors.com

"Teams that spend more than 5% over-slot on the draft will face a 75% tax. Teams that go over slot by 5-10% face a 75% tax and the loss of a first rounder. Teams that go over slot by 10-15% face a 100% tax and the loss of a first and second rounder. Teams that exceed slot by 15% or more face a 100% tax and the loss of two first rounders."

RedFaced |

11/22/2011 3:44:03 PM #

Here's more:

"Teams in the ten smallest markets and with the ten lowest revenues will enter a lottery for six additional first and second round picks, according to Bill Shaikin of the LA Times (on Twitter).
Teams that don't exceed their draft spending limit will have a chance to obtain picks from teams that over-spent."

RedFaced |

11/22/2011 3:46:05 PM #

Some other interesting tidbits about the new CBA..

"MLB rosters will expand to 26 for some doubleheaders.

Instant replay will be expanded to include fair/foul plays and "trap" plays, subject to discussions between MLB and the umpires."

All taken from mlbtraderumors.com

RedFaced |

11/22/2011 3:46:57 PM #

Braun deservedly won the NL MVP I have heard.  

RedFaced |

11/22/2011 4:38:41 PM #

"Jim Callis of Baseball America (via Twitter) calculates that 20 teams went 16% or more over slot this year, which would have triggered 100% tax and a loss of two first-rounders under this CBA."   Yeeeoooooozzzzzaaaaaa

RedFaced |

11/22/2011 5:10:41 PM #

Good from MLB and Mark Sheldon:

http://tinyurl.com/6msu5t8

SlashX |

11/22/2011 5:11:30 PM #

that would be good NEWS.

SlashX |

11/22/2011 5:54:03 PM #

Good summary from Jonah Keri on the new CBA: www.grantland.com/.../mlbs-new-cba-is-no-help-to-small-market-clubs


By the way, it appears from the photo that MLB has company issued suits like the government agency in Men in Black. When Manfred got his suit, I wonder if he told  Selig:  "The difference between you and me is that I make this suit look GOOD!"

River Otter |

11/22/2011 5:54:26 PM #

that is good

Sitting in STL at the airport across from the stupid cardinal filled gift shop. its bad enough I was up til 3am in Vegas last night after several makers and coke doubles. My stomach is now even more unsettled.

Champ Summers |

11/22/2011 5:56:38 PM #

I'm finally near the end of my heavy fall travel season. two more weeks of some local FL travel. Have to get to Miami one more time and then over to Dawgs neck of the woods.

Hopefully i'll be back here just in time for some action to start.

Champ Summers |

11/22/2011 6:21:17 PM #

Good breakdown on the new CBA Otter.  

RedFaced |

11/22/2011 9:25:22 PM #

So it looks like Ryan Hanigan is on the Angels shopping list.  No problem, just make them pay Walt!

timmytwoshoezzz |

11/22/2011 10:20:43 PM #

If the Reds trade Hanigan and bring back Dog, they can forget about their pitching being any better unless they trade for Shields and Jurrjens.  The difference between the pitching last year with Dog and Hanigan behind the dish as well as what Yadi does for the Cards shows the importance of a catcher that can call a game.  Also, Dog is the last guy that should be tutoring Mes.

I'm not necessarily against trading Hanigan for a position of need.  The Reds just better be careful here because I seriously doubt what they'd get in return would outweigh Hanigan's potential impact on the pitching, especially since the other catcher, while talented, is a rookie.

bjsReds1 |

11/22/2011 11:37:00 PM #

Votto finished 6th in the MVP vote I noticed.  

RedFaced |

11/22/2011 11:38:35 PM #

If scioscia wants Hanigan then that tells me the Reds should keep him.  Well actually I already new that.  But that's not to say they couldn't put together a package that would make me change my mind.  

RedFaced |

11/23/2011 1:56:53 AM #

right...no one is untouchable. If they really like someone you can ask for the moon. If you don't get them to overpay then stay put.

Champ Summers |

11/23/2011 2:29:55 AM #

In my opinion Hanigan is just about as untouchable as any Red. I think that the catching situation is pretty well set. Hanigan/Mes then Mes/Grandal. We should be good for the next 6 years. If someone makes an offer for Hanigan they are going to have to blow me out of the water.

SilentBob |

11/23/2011 8:28:37 AM #

Bob,

But, you are so stealth ( as your moniker implies ), they would never know you were IN the water!

Just felt a little humorous this morning. Agree with you--and others.

I just need to comment every now and then so folks don't think I died from non-participation in the off-season stuff.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

genewv |

11/23/2011 8:55:45 AM #

Just wanted to comment on the new TypeA/TypeB status for Hernandez and Cordero as a result of the new CBA  I think it's a good thing for the Reds.  Reds get compensation for each one and don't have to offer arbitration in order to get it.  Sure it's supplemental picks but I'm cool with that.  

RedFaced |

11/23/2011 8:59:30 AM #

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!  Today is Thanksgiving dinner at the office.  We won't get much done today but we'll get good quality bonding time.  

RedFaced |

11/23/2011 9:09:46 AM #

Rumor has it that Farney will be taking a minor league coaching position next year. Don't know for whom yet.

SlashX |

11/23/2011 9:14:35 AM #

Don't have a real problem with trading Hanigan with the obvious assumption that the Reds get good help in return.

Not real excited with the prospect of resigning Dawg.  Would rather have Corky as backup.  He does call a good game and could provide valuable mentor-ship to Mes.

SlashX |

11/23/2011 9:59:33 AM #

Doc Proc has written us a new starter, so time for a fresh thread everyone

Mary |